#ceph IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2016-05-26

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <DaveOD> Does anyone have expirience with an MDS server that is being the bottleneck of a CephFS cluster?
[0:00] <DaveOD> It's not that the MDS server is using alot of resource (CPU/Memory/Disk/Network)
[0:01] <gregsfortytwo> well, it's not surprising, if you're doing a metadata-heavy workload
[0:01] <DaveOD> it's like lstats on files on the cephfs mount take like way too long
[0:01] <gregsfortytwo> but what exactly are you seeing?
[0:02] <DaveOD> when doing ls -alh in a directory with 10 files and 10 subdirs is taking 3 seconds
[0:02] <DaveOD> but thats not the only thing going on of course
[0:02] <DaveOD> but the OSD disks IO are not being utilized at all
[0:03] <DaveOD> if querying the data from the metadata pool would take long, i would assume seeing high disk io on my osd disks?
[0:03] <gregsfortytwo> well, it's hard to say for sure, but "ls -alh" is a very expensive operation
[0:03] <gregsfortytwo> you are asking for basically every piece of metadata about the files
[0:03] <gregsfortytwo> and because CephFS is very careful about its consistency, that means it needs to go get the consistent data
[0:03] <gregsfortytwo> so if somebody else is working on a file or something, it's required to pause IO, report the sizes, etc
[0:04] <gregsfortytwo> *consistent metadata
[0:04] * Lokta (~Lokta@carbon.coe.int) Quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
[0:04] <gregsfortytwo> that's just a consequence of using something that's consistent instead of super-lazy the way NFS is with open-to-close, etc
[0:05] <DaveOD> I understand
[0:05] <DaveOD> but that seems very limiting for big clusters
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[0:05] <gregsfortytwo> well, 3 seconds *is* slower than I'd expect, and it's not system-wide
[0:06] <gregsfortytwo> you must be doing something which touches the same data
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[0:06] <gregsfortytwo> whereas if everybody had their own folders and was working quietly in them, it wouldn't have to do any of that stuff, so it would be much faster
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[0:08] <DaveOD> well, I can't deny that the operations we do are expensive
[0:08] <DaveOD> md5's are commond to be calculated on the files
[0:08] <DaveOD> md5's are common to be calculated on the files
[0:09] <DaveOD> but I would have tought that the MDS would scale also out with the ceph cluster
[0:09] <DaveOD> but I would have thought that the MDS would scale also out with the ceph cluster
[0:09] <gregsfortytwo> it scales data throughput, but "ls -lha" is not data, it's metadata
[0:09] <gregsfortytwo> you have just described a classic conflict and a classic performance problem
[0:09] <gregsfortytwo> several systems are both much slower, and less consistent, if you tried to invoke that on them ;)
[0:10] <gregsfortytwo> the md5s for instance would basically be about fetching data from the OSDs, and will scale as you add OSDs
[0:10] <gregsfortytwo> metadata scales with the MDS
[0:11] <DaveOD> I would assume that putting the metadata pool on SSD OSD's only will not help in this case as the OSD disk IO is not a problem at this moment?
[0:11] <gregsfortytwo> but operations between clients scale better as you reduce the interaction, and as you reduce the network and op processing latencies
[0:11] <gregsfortytwo> it might, actually, depending on which pieces
[0:11] <gregsfortytwo> in general the MDS doesn't like to expose data to clients which hasn't been committed to disks
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[0:12] <DaveOD> by that you mean if the journal has not flushed yet?
[0:13] <gregsfortytwo> yeah
[0:13] <DaveOD> writing a small file and directly ls -alh the file
[0:13] <DaveOD> i get it
[0:14] <DaveOD> but still not what I hoped for
[0:14] <DaveOD> I could not imagine that I would run against a bottleneck when no actually resources are fully booked
[0:14] <gregsfortytwo> if the writing and the ls -lha are on separate clients, the MDS will send a message revoking "caps" to the writing client, receive the new file metadata, probably journal it to disk (I don't recall if an ls forces that or not), and then send it to the ls'ing client
[0:14] <gregsfortytwo> well, it's a latency bottleneck
[0:15] <gregsfortytwo> that's pretty normal in distributed systems, you either run into operational throughput, or into per-op latency
[0:15] <DaveOD> and making the journals flush faster is not a good idea probably?
[0:15] <gregsfortytwo> oh, it flushes them right away if anybody's waiting
[0:16] <gregsfortytwo> that's why storing the metadata pool on SSDs may improve things for you
[0:17] <DaveOD> it all add's up in budget of course
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[0:18] <DaveOD> By the way
[0:18] <DaveOD> I have one total different question regarding big OSD nodes
[0:19] <DaveOD> I did read an article about CERN
[0:19] <DaveOD> that they deployed X amount of OSD nodes with each having 48 x 4TB OSD drives
[0:20] <DaveOD> but don't they run against bandwidth as a bottleneck when all 48 OSD nodes go at 50% IO?
[0:20] <DaveOD> Lets' say SATA spinners with 150 MB/s throughput
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[0:20] <gregsfortytwo> no idea, I think they have pretty fast networking but it's possible
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[0:21] <DaveOD> 8 OSD's in one node = 1200MB/s
[0:21] <DaveOD> thats already close to 10Gbps
[0:21] <DaveOD> If i would use 30 OSD's per server with only 10Gbps network, I can never reach max performance for all my disks at once
[0:22] <DaveOD> or am I missing something?
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[2:32] <earnThis> can I run a very small cluster on just one switch?
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[2:53] <ronrib> DaveOD: from what I can tell, latency introduced through various layers (network, disk io etc) means the writes only happen around 60-80% of what the hdds are actually capable of
[2:54] <ronrib> earnThis: technically yes
[2:55] <earnThis> ronrib: would that be one vlan for the backend netowrk and another for the frontend and then have nodes dual home into ports in each one?
[2:56] <ronrib> depends, you don't need to though
[2:56] <earnThis> ronrib: assuming one switch is the only option what would be the best way then?
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[2:56] <ronrib> the main reason to use a 'data' switch is for bandwidth
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[2:57] <earnThis> ronrib: data meaning the frontend?
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[2:57] <ronrib> the second reason is for security, so you can do something similar with vlans
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[3:01] <earnThis> ronrib: am i right in thinking that the "data" switch is analogous to the frontend?
[3:01] <ronrib> inter node data vs client access data, like in this diagram https://access.redhat.com/discussions/1161713
[3:01] <ronrib> the top 'switch' could be used for ceph nodes to transfer data between each other, the bottom switch can be just for client traffic
[3:01] <earnThis> gotcha
[3:01] <earnThis> thanks
[3:01] <ronrib> no prob
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[3:01] <ronrib> if you're just testing, don't worry about vlans
[3:01] <ronrib> if you're just using 1gb, keep an eye out for bottlenecks
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[3:01] <raeven> I have a question about pgs. If i have 4 osd's disks and i want 2 copies i should use pg of 200 but do i use the same for all pools that i create in the same cluster?
[3:02] <ronrib> you can have a different number of pgs for every pool
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[3:11] <raeven> Do the size of drives matter in any way with ceph?
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[3:14] <ronrib> it doesn't look like it
[3:15] <ronrib> you can use the crush map to balance different sized drives
[3:15] <lurbs> Just bear in mind that more data mean more IO, so you're putting more load on the drives with the higher weights.
[3:16] <raeven> So it is best to keep the size consistent?
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[3:17] <lurbs> Depends on your needs and workloads. We try to.
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[3:18] <raeven> Ok
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[3:30] <PoRNo-MoRoZ> can i force ceph-deploy to user sysvinit ?
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[9:48] <Pavelk> Hello Gyus, can somebody advice with cephfs ?
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[9:49] <Pavelk> +leseb, i know you are experienced man with this stuff, can we talk for a little?
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[10:43] <PavelK> Hello, Is anyone has experience with cephfs ?
[10:45] * kefu_ is now known as kefu
[10:46] <sep> PavelK, you normaly get much better response, if you just ask your questions, in as much detail as possible.
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[10:49] <PavelK> I have following problem, cephfs hangs during simultaneous read-write operations, it will happening as long as data being propogated to all OSDs
[10:49] <PavelK> maybe there is some hints how to deal with it?
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[10:51] <PavelK> host OS - CoreOS, ceph runs in docker, cluster has 2 servers, with mon and 5 osd on each server
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[10:54] <PavelK> there is 512 PGS, replica size 2
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[10:58] <PavelK> Ceph version 10.2.0, kernel 4.3.6 cephfs mounted on two CoreOS instances in /mnt/cephfs, when running dd to place 10gb file and read from another side during copying process it will hang with readdir()
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[11:02] <dvahlin> Hi ppl, trying to add new OSDs to a cluster. but recieving "[ceph01-osd02][WARNIN] Error: Failed to add partition 1 (Device or resource busy)" even though i have zapped the drives. anyone encountered this before? continously hangs on "(ignored, waiting 60s)"
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[11:17] <IcePic> PavelK: did two machines mount the same block device?
[11:18] <PavelK> IcePic: nope, its not rbd, it's cephfs, each osd has own block device
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[11:22] <IcePic> ok.
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[11:23] <IcePic> I was parsing it as one machine wrote, and the other read and got stuck in readdir()
[11:24] <PavelK> Yes, during writing operation, but once data propagated to all OSDs in cluster (after copy finished it takes some time) it becomes normal
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[11:27] <PavelK> the main problem that i want to keep cephfs as main fs to place containers data to have data available on whole cluster as we want to have fault tolerance containers
[11:28] <PavelK> but in that case we will have problems as if one container will be writing data onto cephfs, another will stuck on RW operation
[11:29] <PavelK> RBD works like a charm, but such problems cephfs really confusing me.
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[11:36] <PavelK> dvahlin: can you please tell me how are you joining OSD to a cluster? and preparing drive
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[11:37] <dvahlin> PavelK: using ceph-deploy disk zap ceph01-osd02:sdf
[11:37] <dvahlin> ceph-deploy osd prepare ceph01-osd02:sdf:/journals/osd.10
[11:37] <dvahlin> but seems no symlink to journals are created either... using jewel
[11:38] <PavelK> yes, please check your directory where OSD located, i faced such issue when it creates journal with broken symlink to sdX-2 device
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[11:39] <PavelK> or try to remove all partitions using parted, and re-prepare drive
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[11:42] <PavelK> i'm not usually using ceph-deploy, as running ceph in docker containers i'm running something like that on osd side ceph-disk prepare --cluster ceph --cluster-uuid 9ea9dca4-96a2-4da5-96ff-17de7ee57062 --fs-type xfs /dev/sdc
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[11:45] <dvahlin> PavelK: ty will check on this.. do you have a link to some helpfull reading? like maillist etc
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[11:46] <PavelK> Unfortunaly no, i went thru manual process by myself, by parsing ceph source code in order to get success in building own docker images
[11:46] <PavelK> if you need i can send you steps for how to create OSD manually
[11:47] <PavelK> which OS are you running?
[11:47] <dvahlin> centos7 1 admin node 3 osd:s
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[11:51] <kiranos> PavelK: the issue we see here with non existing symlink to the specified journal is here:
[11:51] <kiranos> http://pastebin.com/rJyjZTEH
[11:51] <kiranos> it should create a symlink from /var/lib/ceph/osd/ceph-7/journal -> /journals/osd.7
[11:51] <kiranos> but for some strange reason it creates two journals
[11:52] <kiranos> one which is not used in the correct path, and a new instead of a symllink on the osd itself
[11:52] <PavelK> In manual way i wasn't seen this problem
[11:52] <kiranos> yea we're thinking its a ceph-deploy bug
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[12:04] <PavelK> kiranos: ya, there is a few more bugs, as python scripts, for example, if using ext4 creates broken link to journal as well. so i had to made changes in python script to switch it for my needs
[12:05] <kiranos> PavelK: you know if there are any "officials" in here?
[12:06] <kiranos> PavelK: hm thought jewel was considered "stable"
[12:06] <kiranos> might not be the case?
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[12:07] <PavelK> it seems to be stable, despite of some problems with cephfs that i'm facing ;) not sure whether some ceph developers here
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[12:09] <PavelK> and i running ceph in not best way, so thats why i facing some problems :) i running it on coreOS inside docker, and trying to use it on machines which serves ceph
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[12:14] <raeven> Is there any ratio that I need to consider if i want to use cephfs in regards to the size of pools for data and metadata?
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[12:15] <raeven> cephfs should be an option in the ceph calculator.
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[12:21] <PavelK> and would be nice to have some documents related to cephfs limitations, and use cases
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[12:53] <sep> dvahlin, only time i did notice that. was when i tried using a disk that i had used previously. and the mount was still hanging around
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[12:54] <dvahlin> sep: ah ok, checking with new drives atm
[12:55] <sep> as did i. but the previous disk died. and the new disk got the old disk id sdz; and the old (removed) disk was still mounted as sdz1 even tho the mount was dead days ago
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[12:56] <sep> if the device is busy, then $something is using it atleast
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[12:57] <dvahlin> sep: ty, did you solve with remount ?
[12:57] <sep> dvahlin, just umount, and the ceph-disk prepare --zap-disk worked i do not mount manually
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[13:04] <dvahlin> sep: ty will check.
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[14:33] <ogzy> although i run the command ceph-deploy mds create nodename, i dont see a mdsmap at ceph -s, ceph mds stat says standby, any idea where should i look_ health is ok by the way
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[14:49] <sep> is the process running ? IIRC it's not active until something mounts cephfs somewhere
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[14:55] <jcsp> ogzy: check that the MDS is really running (ceph-mds process in "ps" on the node) and pastebin your "ceph status"
[14:57] <ogzy> jcsp, http://pastebin.com/P5HJJ4am and http://pastebin.com/g0hEMbWR
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[14:58] <jcsp> ogzy: huh. go look for errors in /var/log/ceph/ceph-mds*
[15:00] <ogzy> jcsp, http://pastebin.com/umMcKuJP
[15:02] <jcsp> those lines are getting generated by something polling the daemons admin socket (calamari?), you might need to look further back
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[15:07] <ogzy> jcsp, yeah i also tried installing calamari
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[15:08] <- *johnavp1989* To prove that you are human, please enter the result of 8+3
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[15:46] <sep> ooops.. pasted the wrong number in rbd create and made a 2048 PB image... was wondering why mkfs complained... buggers !
[15:46] <sep> :)
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[15:48] <IcePic> thin provisioning for thick skulls. ;)
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[15:49] <sep> using this. http://cephnotes.ksperis.com/blog/2014/07/04/remove-big-rbd-image since rbd remove would take a while
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[16:33] <Wild> um... guys? I have an interesting question
[16:33] <Wild> Can I, theoretically, use a POSIX-like client to write a file onto Ceph, and then serve it using RadosGW?
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[16:38] <scg> does the public network is used for replication in case the cluster network is broken?
[16:39] <Wild> ...no?
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[16:39] <Wild> but you can have different resilience technologies on your cluster network
[16:40] <Wild> LACP, two diff IP services, etc.
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[16:40] <m0zes> Wild: s3fs, or the new nfs on rgw, should be able to accomplish what you're wanting.
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[16:41] <WildOne> hmmm
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[16:43] <m0zes> nfs on rgw should be useable with jewel and the *latest* nfs-ganesha (iirc, it is currently in the "dev" version)
[16:43] <WildOne> hmmmm
[16:43] <WildOne> how effing interesting
[16:43] <WildOne> but it's all cutting-edge tech
[16:43] <WildOne> and we're mostly using CentOS6
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[16:51] <WildOne> m0zes: but yes, it's all userspace so no kernel hurdles
[16:52] <neurodrone> Anyone played with ???rbd watch????
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[17:35] <flaf> Hi, I have questions concerning radosgw. If I have multiple radosgw nodes, do I have to create one ceph account _per_ radosgw nodes, or can I have just one ceph account shared by _all_ the radosgw nodes? Or maybe the 2 options are possible?
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[17:53] <flaf> And in [client.radosgw.{instance-name}] what is ???instance-name???? Is it the hostname of the radosgw server? (and in this case, it's necessarily one ceph account per radosgw server)
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[18:02] <georgem> flaf: we have different keys for each radosgw, but I think they could be shared as well; the "instance-name" is chosen by you, in my case is [client.radosgw.controller1] and [client.radosgw.controller1_2] because I run two radosgw instances on each node
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[18:03] <flaf> georgem: ah, in fact the {instance-name} is the name of the host where radosgw is running, correct?
[18:05] <georgem> flaf: in my case they both run on controller1, so the chosen name is not constrained to the hostname
[18:05] <georgem> there is no "controller1_2" host
[18:05] <flaf> georgem: can you tell me the exact meaning of the ???host = ....??? parameter in the section [client.radosgw.{instance-name}}] ?
[18:06] <flaf> Ah ok.
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[18:08] <flaf> georgem: can you confirm to me this: in the ceph.conf of your host you have 2 sections [client.radosgw.controller1] with ???host = controller1??? and the second section [client.radosgw.controller1_2] with ???host = controller1??? too. Am I correct?
[18:08] <georgem> flaf: yes, correct
[18:08] <flaf> where controller1 is the hostname of your unique radosgw host.
[18:08] <georgem> yes
[18:09] <georgem> but keep in mind I run two radosgw instances on the host
[18:10] <georgem> flaf: you would probably have in your ceph.conf:
[18:10] <georgem> [client.radosgw.controller2]
[18:10] <georgem> host = controller1
[18:10] <georgem>
[18:10] <georgem> [client.radosgw.controller2]
[18:10] <georgem> host = controller2
[18:10] <georgem> Sorry:
[18:10] <georgem> [client.radosgw.controller1]
[18:10] <georgem> host = controller1
[18:10] <georgem>
[18:10] <georgem> [client.radosgw.controller2]
[18:10] <georgem> host = controller2
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[18:13] <flaf> Ok, georgem thx for your help. ;). So, if I understand well ???instance-name??? represents an kind of id of a radosgw process (not necessarily in the same host), it's not necessarily related with a hostname and in a section [client.radosgw.{instance-name}] in ceph.conf, the ???host = ...??? parameter just allows the current host to know if the current host has to start (or not) this radosgw
[18:13] <flaf> process (=> start this ???instance-name??? radosgw process <=> the value of its ???host = ...??? parameter == $(hostname).
[18:14] <flaf> Is it correct?
[18:15] <flaf> For instance, a section [client.radosgw.foo] in the ceph.conf of the host ???srv-1??? will be completely ignored if in this section I have ???host = srv-2???.
[18:16] <georgem> flaf: yes, depending on your distro things might work or not though???the scripts that start the services are sometimes broken
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[18:23] <flaf> georgem: ah... I have checked in my Ubuntu Trusty and the fact to start or not a radosgw process is due to the presence or not the file ???/var/lib/ceph/radosgw/ceph-radosgw.$instance_name/done???.
[18:23] <flaf> *of the file...
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[18:24] <flaf> So I don't really the meaning of the ???host = ...??? parameter in the section.
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[18:28] <cholcombe> is there a way to list which pg's belong to which pool?
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[18:30] <georgem> cholcombe: ceph pg dump -> the first column has the pg.id which maps to the pool ID
[18:30] <cholcombe> georgem, ah yes that's right. I forgot about that. Thanks!
[18:31] <m0zes> cholcombe: pgs are named by pool. it is pool.pg_instance_num. and there is also ceph pg ls-by-pool ${poolname}
[18:31] <cholcombe> m0zes, perfect
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[18:51] <scuttlemonkey> Ceph Tech Talk starting in ~10m -- https://bluejeans.com/172084437
[18:51] <scuttlemonkey> Today's topic is performance profiling with CBT
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[20:04] <neurodrone> CBT talk was nice.
[20:04] <neurodrone> There???s no good reporting mechanism though is there?
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[20:57] <- *johnavp1989* To prove that you are human, please enter the result of 8+3
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[21:36] <- *johnavp1989* To prove that you are human, please enter the result of 8+3
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[22:47] <vanham> Ok folks, need your hand here. I have put RadosGW in production here, but I can't get performance to a point here I think it should do. System has 12 SSD OSDs running Indexes and Cache, 12 HD OSDs for data. System now has about 22 million small files and it was fast at first. But now inserting, even at new buckets, is very very slow, I'm getting 20 32k inserts per second tops.
[22:47] <vanham> That's when rest-bench will run
[22:48] <vanham> I'm running Jewel 10.2.1
[22:48] <vanham> *need a hand - ops!
[22:55] <vanham> Requests take more than a second to complete, that they go straitgh to SSD
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[23:05] <vanham> I'm writting to many many different buckets, to bucket index doesn't get that bug
[23:05] <vanham> *big
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