#ceph IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2015-07-30

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[6:31] <npcomp> This is probably a ridiculous question,
[6:31] <snerd> go for it
[6:31] <npcomp> but is there any way to use alternative block storage mechanisms as backing stores for the filesystem?
[6:31] <lurbs> Looked like a statement, to me.
[6:31] <npcomp> s3, swift, etc?
[6:32] <npcomp> Or to peer multiple backing stores?
[6:33] <SamYaple> npcomp: you want ceph to store _its_ objects in swift?
[6:34] <npcomp> Something like that.
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[6:36] <npcomp> I want to replace rados here: http://ceph.com/docs/master/architecture/
[6:36] <SamYaple> npcomp: directly, i highly doubt it. indirectly there are POSIX mappings for Swift/S3 to mount it like a filesystem
[6:36] <npcomp> Specifically with s3.
[6:38] <npcomp> SamYaple: There are some FUSE solutions, but as I understand it, in general, they are not effective past a given threshold.
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[6:38] <npcomp> I have heard about ceph, but not myself set up a cluster.
[6:39] <npcomp> Although I think it does some sort of local object caching in a particularly effective way,
[6:39] <npcomp> that these other solutions might not do.
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[6:41] <snerd> fuse-s3fs works, but has limitations
[6:41] <snerd> posix over s3 etc never works particularly well
[6:41] <snerd> if there was a good posix-over-s3 that worked seemlessly I'd be up for it
[6:42] <snakamoto> npcomp: I'm afraid to ask, but why?
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[6:48] <npcomp> snakamoto: We are just heavy users of s3, and our system could be a lot more efficient.
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[6:49] <npcomp> We do a lot of pushing and pulling of tarballs to s3,
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[6:49] <snakamoto> so ceph would become a caching layer, with S3 as the backend?
[6:49] <npcomp> Something like that.
[6:50] <npcomp> We need a good middleground between storing each of 100k 10k files in s3 in separate keys,
[6:51] <npcomp> and storing 1 gigabyte tarball.
[6:51] <snakamoto> I don't fully understand, of course, but have you guys looked at something like Varnish?
[6:53] <npcomp> No,
[6:54] <florz> npcomp: have you had a look at a database?
[6:54] <npcomp> When I talk about the above, it is not like we are doing this with a single static tarball,
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[6:54] <npcomp> this is happening many, many thousands of times a day across a lot of ephemeral infrastructure.
[6:54] <npcomp> With relatively distinct data sets.
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[6:56] <npcomp> florz: that's really not consistent with our usage scenario, unless you're talking about a big distributed nosql database, which would probably ultimately be cost prohibitive for the size we would need.
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[6:57] <florz> well, I obviously don't have a clue what you are doing, but somehow it sounds to me like more of a problem for a single database server than for "cloud storage"
[6:57] <rkeene> It's really not clear what you are wanting. What would the ideal situation look like ?
[6:58] <npcomp> rkeene: are you familiar with fuse-s3fs ?
[6:58] <florz> in particular that you are looking for something like block storage backed by s3 ... that's really just crazy, s3 is eventually consistent, you can't build distributed block storage on top of that
[6:58] <rkeene> npcomp, Yes
[6:59] <npcomp> Like that, but without a lot of the limitations.
[6:59] <rkeene> Well, it would be better if you described the ideal situation instead of alluded to it.
[6:59] <npcomp> I think fuse-s3fs makes a request for every file, which is really not workable.
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[7:00] <florz> and essentially, using s3 as a storage backend for any automated system is crazy ... it's extremely hard to build a reliable system on top of that
[7:00] <npcomp> so, a fuse-s3fs that used blocks instead of files.
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[7:01] <npcomp> florz: really?
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[7:01] <npcomp> Ours is pretty reliable,
[7:01] <npcomp> (just more expensive than we want)
[7:01] <npcomp> But it's not block storage.
[7:01] <florz> npcomp: well, yeah, everything interfacing it has to handle its eventual consistency
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[7:02] <florz> which is pretty unintuitive
[7:02] <npcomp> florz: have you seen a lot of out-of-date reads on s3?
[7:02] <rkeene> That wouldn't really be too hard to make, really... But it wouldn't be too helpful with tarballs -- you have to read everything up to the point you want (and all after that too, really) because there's no central index (and files may be included multiple times)
[7:03] <npcomp> rkeene: right, the goal is not-tarballs.
[7:03] <npcomp> but files stored in blocks.
[7:03] <npcomp> And not some crazy homegrown thing.
[7:03] <florz> npcomp: no, haven't used it much ... because it doesn't matter how often they occur, they can happen, so your code has to stay correct when they happen
[7:03] <snakamoto> npcomp: I complete missed the block part. So what is the purpose of the block storage?
[7:03] <rkeene> Why do you care if they are stored in multiple objects versus one object, since you may perform random I/O on any one object ?
[7:04] <npcomp> rkeene: We perform relatively little random io.
[7:04] <snakamoto> block strikes me as very single host
[7:04] <rkeene> So why do you want to break the files up into multiple objects ?
[7:04] <snakamoto> not something you distribute in a cloud
[7:04] <rkeene> Because you want to perform write-after-first-close ?
[7:05] <florz> npcomp: but are you sure that a single database server couldn't do the job? a gigabyte doesn't seem like that much data?!
[7:05] <npcomp> rkeene: if we had a 1-file->1-object relationship, that is too many.
[7:05] <npcomp> florz: That was an example of an operation we do with distinct datasets hundreds of thousands of times a day.
[7:06] <npcomp> snakamoto: most of our workload is partitioned by host during a single operation.
[7:06] <rkeene> I write FUSE filesystems sometimes, so I could implement what you want if I can figure out the semantics :-P
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[7:07] <npcomp> rkeene: yeah, I am looking for something that is (mostly) already written.
[7:08] <npcomp> thanks for the offer, but I don't think fuse is our answer.
[7:08] <rkeene> But really, it may already be possible to do what you want with a combination of s3nbd and using a filesystem (mounted read-only) instead of a tarball.
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[7:08] <rkeene> It might just be cumbersome
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[7:09] <npcomp> rkeene: I wonder if s3nbd has been tried.
[7:10] <rkeene> By anyone ?
[7:10] <npcomp> by us.
[7:10] <npcomp> Looks like s3nbd is dead-ish.
[7:11] <npcomp> It might work if we put the blocksize up to something more like 4/16/32M from 4k,
[7:11] <rkeene> Due to Amazon priing changes it became non-viable by the original author
[7:12] <npcomp> So I see.
[7:12] <npcomp> Probably would make it not viable for us as well,
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[7:12] <npcomp> though I may think more about it.
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[7:22] <rkeene> It should be near the same I/O requests as the underlying file due to the filesystem index, as long as your filesystem is not fragmented (fairly easy to ensure)
[7:23] <rkeene> And you use the same block size between s3nbd and the filesystem
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[7:59] <edrian> Hi guys, I'm facing an issue that I don't know how to fix with ceph: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8841032
[8:00] <edrian> I read the doc about the pgs but I reckon I don't really understand what is it all about...
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[8:30] <Mosibi> edrian: your message is showing that pg_num and pgp_num are not the same
[8:31] <Mosibi> edrian: 'ceph osd pool set .rgw.buckets pgp_num 64' will fix that
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[8:37] <edrian> Mosibi: ah thanks. I misread that!
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[8:39] <Mosibi> edrian: happens more :) Also learned it the hard way :)
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[9:00] <xahare> anyone know an easy way to take all the hosts in a given group, and make a list of their ip addresses for a playbook?
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[9:01] <xahare> making a playbook to add ceph storage to a proxmox cluster, which only wants the monitors in a comma separated list of ip addresses
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[9:27] <Be-El> hi
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[9:30] <xahare> hello
[9:33] <ivotron> anyone knows if a pool can be created with a subset of osds in the cluster
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[9:34] <xahare> oh crap, i posted an ansible question in the ceph channel
[9:34] <xahare> oops
[9:34] <ivotron> e.g. if cluster has 10 osds, can a pool use 5 osds?
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[9:35] <Nats_> pools rely on crush map ruleset to choose osd's
[9:36] <Be-El> ivotron: not based on osd, but you can create a crush ruleset
[9:36] <Nats_> which will not necessarily be all of them, so yes
[9:36] <ivotron> ok, thanks
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[13:49] <Mosibi> Hi all. 'ceph -w' returns the 'ceph -s' output and one (week) old 'WRN' entry and nothing else. Has anybody seen this before or know what is wrong?
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[13:54] <stj> Mosibi: that's... strange. is your cluster completely idle?
[13:55] <stj> i feel like even when you're idle -w should be returning something
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[13:55] <Mosibi> stj: yes it is, but messages about clock problems also do not come trough
[13:56] <stj> what does the week-old WRN actually say?
[13:56] <Mosibi> stj: i manualy triggert a scrub, also nothing to see
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[13:57] <Mosibi> 2015-07-21 15:23:40.414236 mon.0 [WRN] mon.1 <ipaddress> clock skew 0.366021s > max 0.05s
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[13:57] <Mosibi> stj: and after that, nothing....
[13:58] <stj> huh.. and `ceph health` is OK, and all your OSDs are up/in ?
[13:58] <Mosibi> stj: yup
[13:58] <stj> fascinating :)
[13:58] <Mosibi> stj: and in my ceph-mon log
[13:58] <Mosibi> 2015-07-30 13:58:01.935783 7f85121fc700 0 log_channel(cluster) log [INF] : pgmap v10875: 1344 pgs: 1344 active+clean; 1456 MB data, 15927 MB used, 566 TB / 566 TB avail
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[13:59] <Mosibi> stj: network is normal up and running, no firewalls..
[14:00] <stj> i mean, if you're not actually writing data or scrubbing, i guess i wouldn't expect much to show up in the -w output
[14:00] <stj> but, you said you triggered a scrub
[14:00] <Mosibi> indeed
[14:00] <stj> i'd at least expect some output from pgs going active+clean -> active+scrubbing i guess?
[14:00] <Mosibi> and normally the log_channel message should apear
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[14:01] <stj> if your pgmap version increments, it should appear
[14:01] <stj> that log_channel message was logged while you were watching -w output?
[14:01] <Mosibi> indeed and indeed
[14:02] <Be-El> does ceph -w get the messages from ceph itself or from a local logfile (which might not be readable by the current user)
[14:02] <Be-El> ?
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[14:03] <Mosibi> Be-El: as i understand it should come from cluster messages and not from a local file
[14:03] <stj> yeah, i believe it talks to ceph itself
[14:03] <Mosibi> Be-El: and i also ran ceph -w as root
[14:03] <stj> since the ceph command needs a key and ceph.conf to work (or key/conf in the default place)
[14:04] <Mosibi> ik have a firefly cluster (also), this is hammer. And that cluster behaves normal
[14:04] <stj> oh.. my cluster that i'm comparing is firefly
[14:04] <Mosibi> i diffed the running configs from both and that did not show some strange diffs
[14:04] <stj> maybe this is a new hammer thing
[14:05] <stj> has it always been this way on your hammer cluster?
[14:05] <Mosibi> stj: that was my first thought also, but i see WRN messages (clock) in the logs that are not in ceph -w
[14:05] <Mosibi> stj: yes
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[16:36] <erice> scuttlemonkey: If you are on, are you going to send a reminder to the email list that the Ceph File System talk is today at 1pm ET?
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[17:05] <scuttlemonkey> erice: yep, sent one earlier...but another is about to go out in moments :)
[17:05] <scuttlemonkey> thanks
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[17:08] <rkeene> I'm about ready to rip out Ceph and just replace it with Gluster... The performance is just too terrible.
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[17:09] <scuttlemonkey> rkeene: that would be an interesting decision
[17:10] <scuttlemonkey> curious what your use case is...and what performance point you are trying for
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[17:14] <rkeene> scuttlemonkey, I'm running VMs using QEMU, and I'd really just like to be able to achieve atleast 1/10th the native disk speed
[17:15] <rkeene> (Right now I have a single OSD and 5 mostly-idle VMs, running "vim" on one is terrible)
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[17:16] <Be-El> single osd, 5 client, and you are wondering that your performance is bad?
[17:16] <rkeene> I'm wondering why my performance is so far below what it would be if I didn't use Ceph
[17:17] <rkeene> A single disk and 5 VMs would be usable if the disk were attached to the same system running the VMs
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[17:17] <m0zes> because there is overhead to what ceph does. it isn't designed for single-server cases. much less single osd cases.
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[17:17] <Be-El> it's exactly what you can expect.....each write is written to the journal and the disk itself, 5 client, 5*2 -> 1/10th of the performance
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[17:28] <scuttlemonkey> rkeene: that is a normal use case which many people have achieved quite good performance on
[17:28] <rkeene> Be-El, And maybe if the 5 VMs were doing I/O that would be relevant, but it's not -- most of the time there is no I/O, I/O is just slow (taking many seconds to complete)
[17:28] <scuttlemonkey> I'm not the guy to troubleshoot
[17:28] <scuttlemonkey> perhaps send something to the lists?
[17:29] <scuttlemonkey> oh, I mesread
[17:29] <scuttlemonkey> misread*
[17:29] <scuttlemonkey> single osd?
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[17:29] <rkeene> Yeah, just a single disk that is easily capable of handling the I/O of the 5 tiny VMs.
[17:31] <Wes_d> sorry for the noob question but is there a minimum OSD size, im scripting out a ceph-deploy script in a vm environment and pointing at a 5 gig raw disk, getting the following error ERROR:ceph-disk:journal size (5120M) is bigger than device (5000M) (is the journal always 5120M?) would i be okay if i just upped my disk to 10 gigs? Or would I perhaps see a similar error, maybe im not specifying my journal size correctly? Thanks.
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[17:32] <m0zes> Wes_d: you can change the journal size in ceph.conf. although I think the osd needs to be 10GB+ due to rounding with weights in the crushmap.
[17:33] <Wes_d> Thanks m0zes
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[17:37] <Be-El> question regarding slow equests: i have a cephfs setup with a cache tier in front of an ec pool
[17:38] <Be-El> i see two kinds of slow requests: ops in the cache tier (eg slow request 240.189093 seconds old, received at 2015-07-30 17:33:37.717678: osd_op(mds.0.25:47494063 10000c26c31.0000430c [delete] 18.bc86fcbd snapc 1=[] ondisk+write+known_if_redirected e185006) currently reached_pg)
[17:38] <Be-El> and ops on the ec pool (eg slow request 30.699181 seconds old, received at 2015-07-30 17:37:13.888292: MOSDECSubOpWrite(19.4cs0 185006 ECSubWrite(tid=1904267, reqid=osd.56.183758:1116309, at_version=185006'52405, trim_to=184974'49363, trim_rollback_to=184982'52396)) currently started)
[17:38] <Be-El> osd.5 referred in the last line is also an osd in the cache tier
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[17:39] <Be-El> what's the probable root cause of the slow requests? are the ec pool osds too slow to handle the requests?
[17:40] <Be-El> and are delete requests on ec pool actual write operations?
[17:42] <Be-El> there are also slow delete operations on other pools, which are also triggered by cache layer osds (egslow request 30.717348 seconds old, received at 2015-07-30 17:41:14.816895: osd_op(osd.65.185004:41119 10000c26bca.0000077a [delete] 19.8f233e00 snapc 1=[] ondisk+write+ignore_overlay+enforce_snapc+known_if_redirected e185006) currently commit_sent)
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[17:45] <m0zes> deletes in the caching layer seem to be a slow request. I've had large-scale flushes/evictions that can cause i/o issues for everything else.
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[17:47] <Be-El> yeah, cache tier and mds need a better op throttleling
[17:48] <debian112> not sure if my question was answer yesterday. I had Internet problems
[17:48] <Be-El> i had a lot of "fun" when i tried to delete several millions of files in a replication pool used by cephfs
[17:48] <debian112> Is this how I would assign two pools to the same client:
[17:48] <debian112> ceph auth caps client.user mon 'allow r' osd 'allow rw pool=pool1, pool2'
[17:49] <debian112> goal is to use the same client and keys for two different pools
[17:49] <Be-El> debian112: there's an example in the ceph openstack documentation (either cinder or nova)
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[17:50] <debian112> would you happen to have that link?
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[17:51] <Be-El> ceph auth get-or-create client.cinder mon 'allow r' osd 'allow class-read object_prefix rbd_children, allow rwx pool=volumes, allow rwx pool=vms, allow rx pool=images'
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[17:51] <Be-El> that's the part you need
[17:51] <Be-El> you need to adopt it to your use case of cause
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[17:53] <debian112> thanks, that is the same as my command above
[17:53] <debian112> thanks!
[17:53] <debian112> almost like it
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[18:52] <nyov> i've been trying to create a ceph OSD on an LVM LV, but ceph-disk completely barfs on dm-mapped volumes. Are there any manual instructions to do what ceph-disk does?
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[19:02] <Be-El> nyov: how do you want to run and maintain an osd on a lvm? the standard setup uses partition type guids to identify osd data partitions
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[19:03] <Be-El> nyov: that said, the easiest way to run an osd on a lv is prepared the lv (mkfs, mount, entry in fstab), and use the mount location with ceph-disk
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[19:03] <Be-El> nyov: but in that case you have to maintain the setup manually
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[19:13] <nyov> Be-El: I can create partitions on a LV. in fact ceph-disk creates a partition table before it bails and can't find the partition again (because /dev/mapper/some-thing is /sys/block/dm-11 where ceph-disk looks for /sys/block/some-thing1)
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[19:14] <nyov> I used to do that manually before as well (just a mkfs xfs, and mount) but that isn't the ideal way to create the fs
[19:14] <Be-El> you can try to use the create partition as osd data partition directly
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[19:15] <nyov> there are some flags to the xfs mkfs I need as well. and how the journal is done
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[19:15] <Be-El> otherwise use the source code of ceph-deploy. it's just a python script
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[19:16] <nyov> wasn't ceph-deploy based on ceph-disk?
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[19:17] <Be-El> eh...ceph-disk of cause
[19:17] <nyov> ah, I've been trying that. certainly was the first thing. but that looks so convoluted, I hoped for an easier manual
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[19:19] <mza> hi, ive got ceph on a 10g client network and a 40g backend network... i cant get rbd export to acheive more than 4gbit a second on the 10 gig switch
[19:19] <mza> is there a tweak that needs to be made? it doesnt seem the OSDs will send more than a gigabit inbound/outbound
[19:19] <snakamoto> can you give some more details? How many nodes, how many drives, etc?
[19:20] <mza> 4 OSDs, 3 monitors
[19:20] <Be-El> OSD as in a single disk?
[19:20] <mza> each OSD has 4 raid1 pairs of 4tb drives
[19:20] <mza> and raid0 SSDs
[19:21] <mza> for caching
[19:21] <mza> and like 96G of memory
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[19:21] <mza> everything is set to 9000 mtu
[19:22] <Be-El> and how do you measure throughput?
[19:22] <mza> i used iperf between my OSD and my consumer
[19:22] <mza> was hitting 8gbit/sec there abouts
[19:22] <Be-El> and rbd throughput?
[19:22] <mza> spikes to 4gbit and then settles around 1gbit
[19:23] <Be-El> no, how do you measure it? which tool?
[19:23] <mza> rbd export and nload on the consumer machine
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[19:24] <mza> i even tried with --rbd-concurrent-management-ops 30 and no change
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[19:25] <Be-El> never heard of nload...
[19:25] <mza> iptraf?
[19:25] <mza> both report the same
[19:25] <Be-El> you are mixing up things
[19:25] <Be-El> network seems to be ok
[19:25] <Be-El> but how does rbd access the osds?
[19:26] <Be-El> if rbd is accessing them sequentially, you will end up with the throughput of a single osd at a time
[19:26] <doppelgrau> mza: try fio with paralel reads, I guess rbd export is working seuentially and that would mean you are limited to the speed of the disks so 1GBit/s seems allright
[19:27] <Be-El> try to run the usual bench tools like rados bench or rbd bench, they support multiple threads and varying workloads
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[19:29] <mza> oh i see what you're saying
[19:29] <Be-El> mza: and run atop or similar tool on the osd host during benchmarking to find bottlenecks
[19:30] <mza> that's the issue, which of the 4 OSDs will it hit ;)
[19:31] <Be-El> mza: ceph behaves similar to LACP....two 1GBit lacp links do not give you 2 GBit throughput, but allows you to run two streams with 1 GBit in parallel
[19:31] <Be-El> mza: current displays provide enough real estate for 4 or more terminal windows ;-)
[19:31] <mza> LOL
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[19:32] <doppelgrau> Be-El: I like the LCAP analogy, have to rember that
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[19:32] <Be-El> doppelgrau: yeah, took me some time to figure out why lacp did not speed up things the first time I set it up....
[19:33] <snakamoto> nice analogy indeed!
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[19:35] <Be-El> well, time to call it a day
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[19:40] <mza> co-worker made a good point, rbd export may be flattening images
[19:40] <mza> what is fio?
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[19:42] <mza> i found it
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[19:46] <amatter> Good morning. I have an existing cluster and I've setup 7 more OSDs on two hosts. Rather than using "ceph osd crush add" I've added them directly to a decompiled crush map. However, the map won't compile because it says the new osds are not defined. Do I need to add them via another step before added them in the crush map?
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[19:51] <doppelgrau> amatter: how did you setup the osds?
[19:51] <doppelgrau> amatter: on startup they should be added automatically if the setup was allright
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[19:54] <amatter> doppelgrau: I actuall just found that I forgot to add the osds under the devices list in the top of the decompiled crushmap. When I do a ceph -s the new OSDs show up as 12 OSDs, 6 up, 6 in, so the cluster knows about them. Now I have a new error in the crush map, I added a rack bucket and now it says "item 'rack-pipeline' in bucket 'default' is not defined"
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[19:55] <amatter> heres the crush map: http://pastebin.com/dhtx0acY
[19:57] <doppelgrau> amatter: why do you edit the crushmap by hand
[19:58] <doppelgrau> a ned osd is added to the crush-map automatically on startup if setup correctly
[19:58] <amatter> actually I just found the problem, the order of elements in the crushmap is significant, you can't reference items that are defined later in the file
[19:59] <amatter> doppelgrau: I wanted to add a new level in the crush hierarchy to represent different racks
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[20:00] <doppelgrau> amatter: ???osd crush location??? with fitting values?
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[20:00] <doppelgrau> amatter: and the existing can easily moved to other buckets
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[20:01] <doppelgrau> amatter: but I???m curious if your approach will work :)
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[22:28] <Wes_d> so, im building a ceph cluster via ceph-deploy, my ceph.log on my mon shows ???cluster [INF] pgmap v54: 64 pgs: 64 active+clean; 0 bytes data, 202 MB used, 44011 MB / 442??? but when I try to run ceph health, I get ???-1 monclient(hunting): ERROR: missing keyring, cannot use cephx for authentication??? any ideas?
[22:29] <Wes_d> when i give ceph health ???verbose i get ???parsed_args: Namespace(admin_socket=None, admin_socket_nope=None, cephconf=None etc etc??? making me think it isnt reading in the correct info to communicate with any cluster
[22:37] <infernix> when an OSD is set to out, how do I check the progress of data migration for a specific OSD?
[22:37] <infernix> i'm trying to automate disk replacements so I need to know for a specific OSD only, e.g. ceph -s doesn't cut it
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[22:42] <infernix> looks like checking osdstat of kbused=0 and kbavail=0?
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