#ceph IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2015-07-11

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <kutija> I was planning to increase replication factor to 3 at some point
[0:00] <qhartman> yeah, I stretched my budget by getting used servers
[0:00] <qhartman> then I spent my money on the network and SSDs for journals
[0:00] <kutija> but with this kind of load I first need to get decent IO
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[0:00] <kutija> I have SSD for journaling
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[0:00] <kutija> and that made a huge difference
[0:01] <qhartman> yes, it does
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[0:01] <qhartman> but you really need to either figure out a ways to reduce the IO requests being made, or throw more hardware wat it
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[0:02] <kutija> well I have 55 instances, a lots of users and websites
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[0:02] <kutija> great amount of traffic
[0:02] <qhartman> 55 vms on 8 spindles?
[0:02] <kutija> yeah
[0:02] <qhartman> dude, you are suuuuuuper overproviioned
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[0:03] <qhartman> for reference, I have 42 spindles running 80 vms, and I'm also over provisioned
[0:03] <kutija> well I did everything I could
[0:03] <kutija> to reduce IO
[0:03] <qhartman> I don't doubt it if you have that many machines running on that few drives
[0:04] <qhartman> but yeah, you either need to throw more hardware at it or reduce the demand
[0:04] <qhartman> those are pretty much your choices
[0:05] <kutija> demand is going to be much much larger so I need more hw
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[0:06] <qhartman> one way to look at it, you have 8 drives, but each write gets doubled, so you effecitvely have 4 drives worth of IO resource
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[0:06] <kutija> yeah that's the way to look at it
[0:06] <qhartman> with 55 VMs, each machien eefectively gets 0.07 of a drive's worth of IO
[0:06] <qhartman> that's not nearly enough for most workloads
[0:07] <qhartman> I try not to go below .5, but I'm currently runnign at about .22
[0:08] <kutija> so what should be the most important parameter to look at when purchasing spindles? Spindle Speed, Sustained Transfer Rate, Latency.... ?
[0:08] <qhartman> and it's manageable, but customers complain
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[0:08] <qhartman> spindle speed and latency
[0:08] <kutija> yeah that complaint part is an issue
[0:08] <qhartman> but it's kind of a foregone conclusion
[0:08] <qhartman> due to physics
[0:08] <qhartman> the only drives that are worth paying for are all going to be 7200 RPM
[0:08] <kutija> yeah mine are
[0:08] <qhartman> and those give you about 150 IOPS
[0:09] <qhartman> pretty much all of them
[0:09] <qhartman> you can get 10k drives
[0:09] <qhartman> but the yare expensive enough that it probably makes more sense to get SSDs instead
[0:10] <qhartman> sustained transfer rate doesn't matter a whole lot because each OSD will be doing fairly small transfers
[0:10] <qhartman> pretty much any modern drive will be "fast enough" for how ceph works
[0:10] <kutija> yeah I figured that out
[0:11] <mtanski> 1TB evo pro are like $400 now
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[0:11] <mtanski> I know they are consumer drives, but price / performance ratio is so good on those
[0:11] <mtanski> that if they fail, just get another one
[0:12] <qhartman> evo pro are mutually exclusive, assuming you are talking about samsung drives
[0:13] <qhartman> I have a mix of pros and evos
[0:13] <qhartman> and the pros are mearureably better
[0:13] <mtanski> sorry, mispoke
[0:13] <kutija> and how long do they live?
[0:13] <kutija> in a env with high load?
[0:13] <qhartman> at my usage rate, mine will officially "die" in about 3 years for the pros, 2 years for the evos
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[0:13] <qhartman> but they have been measured to run much longer than that
[0:14] <qhartman> that's just their rated life, and samsung doesn;t force them to self destruct like some manufacturers do
[0:14] <mtanski> and the ssd drives in 2 years will be way better
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[0:14] <kutija> and hopefully cheaper per GB
[0:14] <mtanski> versus in 2 years from now the spinning disk, will be marginally better
[0:14] <kutija> if any better
[0:15] <mtanski> we???re still mostly rust for ceph, that???s because we want to have the storage be as cheap as possible
[0:15] <mtanski> and we have SSD caches locally on the same place as the application
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[0:16] <mtanski> saves a lot of network traffic for us too
[0:16] <mtanski> but if you care about performance / unit cost then the mid-high end consumer ssd drives where it???s at
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[0:17] <kutija> what about mixing servers with different amount of disks in them
[0:17] <kutija> do or don't?
[0:17] <qhartman> yeah, I can't say enough good about the samsung pros
[0:17] <mtanski> if you don???t mind know that you???ll have to replace them at a resonable rate
[0:17] <mtanski> knowing*
[0:18] <mtanski> there???s nothing really stopping you from doing that, and you can control placement via crush on a per host / osd level
[0:18] <qhartman> kutija, only seems to matter if some servers have enough OSDs in them t osaturate their network connection and others don't , then you get spiky performance
[0:18] <mtanski> if you don???t mind defining the policy
[0:18] <qhartman> and yeah, crush maps can compensate, but that's not something I've undertaken yet
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[0:44] <kutija> what about upgrading server and adding new disks
[0:44] <kutija> if I need to get it offline
[0:44] <kutija> to get disks and controller in
[0:44] <kutija> what is the best way to do it
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[0:45] <kutija> beside having a backup of everything of course
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[0:46] <qhartman> assuming you will bring the osds currently in the machine back, set osd noout flag on the cluster, take the machine offline, do the upgrade, turn it back on, make sur ethe old OSDs come up, unset the flag, then configure the new OSDs
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[0:48] <qhartman> since you'r erunning size two, also should make sure your min_size is set appropraitely so things will keep running while the machine you remove is down
[0:48] <kutija> yeah it is set
[0:48] <kutija> I already tried to forcefully reboot it in order to see how it works
[0:48] <qhartman> good good
[0:52] <MentalRay> You guys are talking about using Samsung EVO/Pro for OSD and/or Journal?
[0:52] <qhartman> I'm using them for OS and journal, spinners for OSD
[0:53] <MentalRay> Samsung for Journal is not the best and Im not talking about durability
[0:53] <MentalRay> We did multiple test with them and base on exchanges and what we experimented
[0:53] <MentalRay> Ceph write on journal with DSYNC
[0:53] <MentalRay> which Samsung drives has a hard time with
[0:54] <MentalRay> they do like 10 MB/s
[0:54] <MentalRay> while Intel Enterprise SSD do 200 MB/s
[0:54] <MentalRay> because they have PLP
[0:55] <MentalRay> In our lab
[0:55] <MentalRay> we move the journal to Intel DC S37xx series
[0:57] <qhartman> good to know, though I haven't seen anything like that
[0:57] <qhartman> I'm badly IO bound, but it's all on my spinners
[0:57] <MentalRay> OSD are all SSD in our case
[0:57] <qhartman> according to all my stats my SSDs are bored
[0:57] <MentalRay> 80 SSD OSD
[0:57] <MentalRay> 12 Journal SSD
[0:58] <qhartman> how's 6 OSD/ journal disk working out?
[0:58] <MentalRay> let me recalculate
[0:58] <qhartman> That feels like the densest I'd like to go for that
[0:58] <MentalRay> seem high
[0:58] <MentalRay> :p
[0:58] <MentalRay> nah its more
[0:58] <MentalRay> we do
[0:58] <MentalRay> 12 SSD per Node
[0:58] <MentalRay> OSD
[0:58] <MentalRay> and 4 journal
[0:59] <qhartman> 2 per journal then
[0:59] <MentalRay> 3 per journal
[0:59] <qhartman> I'm doing three, and with spinners at least, it's working out well
[0:59] <MentalRay> performance is not what I expected...
[0:59] <MentalRay> for a full ssd cluster
[0:59] <qhartman> oh oh 12 OSD SSD, I thought you meant 12 total
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[1:00] <qhartman> I would imagine you are limited by your journals or your interconnects
[1:00] <kutija> what is the impact to overall performance when you have more journal SSD's?
[1:00] <MentalRay> journal and replicate kill the IO
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[1:00] <MentalRay> lets say I kill a full node
[1:00] <MentalRay> recover max out the 20 Gbps easy
[1:00] <MentalRay> since I think its writing from OSD to OSD directly
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[1:01] <MentalRay> bypassing the journals
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[1:01] <MentalRay> when you write a new file it goes to the journal
[1:01] <MentalRay> then journal to osd
[1:01] <MentalRay> then for the second copy
[1:01] <MentalRay> journal to journal2 then to its osd
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[1:01] <MentalRay> (Im guessing)
[1:01] <MentalRay> and since the journal looks like its using DSYNC write
[1:02] <MentalRay> it max out at 100+ MB/s
[1:02] <MentalRay> if you guys run FIO on your setup
[1:02] <MentalRay> what kind of performance you are getting?
[1:03] <qhartman> I've got way too much real work running on my setup to run fio
[1:03] <MentalRay> ok ok
[1:03] <qhartman> if I remember the numbers I was getting before deploying it
[1:04] <qhartman> It was pushing 1000MB, but I didn't do that test w/ fio
[1:04] <MentalRay> ok ok
[1:04] <MentalRay> how many OSD and journals?
[1:04] <qhartman> 42 spinning OSDs across 14 hosts
[1:04] <qhartman> each with one SSD for OS and journal for 3 OSDs
[1:05] <MentalRay> samsung?
[1:05] <qhartman> yeah, mostly pros wit ha handful of EVOs
[1:05] <qhartman> all 850s
[1:05] <MentalRay> ok ok
[1:05] <MentalRay> I tested like 25 drives for journals
[1:05] <MentalRay> samsung always perfect less (much less)
[1:05] <qhartman> the Pro are measurable better than the evo's
[1:05] <MentalRay> but no one has an exact way to test it
[1:06] <MentalRay> what kind of CPUs you using in your OSD Node?
[1:07] <qhartman> 8-core Xeons w/ HT
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[1:07] <MentalRay> ok
[1:07] <qhartman> they are older HP proliant
[1:07] <MentalRay> your CPU usage are maxing?
[1:07] <qhartman> DL160 G6
[1:07] <qhartman> not even close
[1:08] <MentalRay> ok ok
[1:08] <qhartman> I'm runnign a converged ceph / openstack cluster with VMS and OSDs on the same nodes
[1:08] <qhartman> and the VMs are taking more CPU than the OSDs
[1:08] <MentalRay> everybody told me on ssd cluster I would maxout the 12 core of each node but it doesn't happened
[1:08] <MentalRay> base on what I saw its really the Journal that are the bottleneck
[1:08] <qhartman> but I've got lots of hearoom still since the disk density is so low, only 3 OSDs per machine
[1:09] <MentalRay> ok
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[1:09] <MentalRay> you use that with something like OpenStack?
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[1:10] <qhartman> yeah
[1:10] <MentalRay> nice
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[1:11] <MentalRay> you are setup in 10gbe between your Compute Node and Storage nodes?
[1:11] <kutija> I have that kind of setup
[1:11] <MentalRay> you have slow result when you do snapshot?
[1:12] <kutija> yeah
[1:12] <kutija> it takes time
[1:12] <MentalRay> if you check the cpu where your glance is
[1:12] <kutija> even when my storage was empty and in testing
[1:12] <MentalRay> does it seem to capp at 30%
[1:12] <kutija> acutally never took a look
[1:12] <MentalRay> then transferring at around 60-80 MB/s?
[1:13] <MentalRay> I think there is a throttle somewhere in glance
[1:13] <MentalRay> that is the cause of that behaviour
[1:13] <kutija> which version of OpenStack are you using
[1:13] <MentalRay> Kilo
[1:13] <MentalRay> had same issue with Juno
[1:13] <kutija> I'm on Juno
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[1:14] <MentalRay> they are suposse to change the way snapshot are handle with RBD
[1:14] <kutija> I thought that snapshot time is long because the final image is RAW and it's huge
[1:15] <MentalRay> well seem to download the data from the storage to the compute
[1:15] <MentalRay> then the compute package it
[1:15] <MentalRay> (the first download goes at 2+ Gbps
[1:15] <MentalRay> then once done packaging it
[1:15] <MentalRay> its uploading it to RBD with glance has a gateway
[1:15] <MentalRay> and it goes at 80 MB/s
[1:16] <MentalRay> If I remember I had the same behavior in Juno
[1:16] <darkfader> network vendors surely approve that 'design' :)
[1:16] <MentalRay> hehe
[1:16] <MentalRay> well they are working to change that
[1:16] <kutija> :))
[1:17] <MentalRay> so the snapshot get done within rdb
[1:17] <MentalRay> and then just update the metadata on glance
[1:17] <MentalRay> but its not done yet
[1:20] <MentalRay> I had an bug where when creating a snapshot
[1:20] <MentalRay> you couldn't boot a vm from it ;)
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[1:25] <kutija> heh I had a same issue on Folsom
[1:25] <kutija> with Cinder
[1:25] <kutija> no way to boot a snapshot
[1:25] <MentalRay> well it was a bug
[1:25] <MentalRay> we fixed it
[1:25] <MentalRay> related to nova needed data on RAMDISK info
[1:26] <MentalRay> was a line of code
[1:26] <kutija> that missing line of code could save my live a few times
[1:26] <kutija> :)
[1:26] <kutija> *life
[1:26] <MentalRay> hehe yeah
[1:27] <kutija> but still there is this god damned bug with volume statuses and deleted instances
[1:28] <kutija> that one made my life hard two days ago
[1:28] <kutija> so I had to fix it manually through MYSQL
[1:28] <kutija> same tricks for old bugs just as in Folsom
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[1:31] <qhartman> I'm on Juno
[1:31] <qhartman> Don't really do snapshots, so I've no idea how they perform
[1:31] <qhartman> I do live migrations between hosts though, and they work great
[1:32] <qhartman> I'm currently working on writing some quick tools to help migrate volumes from one ceph pool to another
[1:32] <qhartman> so I can change the volume type a VM uses
[1:32] <kutija> you use neutron l3?
[1:32] <qhartman> even though Horizon / OS don't see them as equivalent
[1:32] <qhartman> not yet, once they gett the distributed stuff going I will likely switch to it
[1:32] <kutija> how many controllers?
[1:32] <qhartman> since we're serving local users, neutron would be too much of a bottleneck
[1:33] <kutija> heh :)
[1:33] <kutija> neutron is nice but seems a little bit slow
[1:34] <qhartman> yeah, I've not used it much. As soon as I saw it required bottlenecking all my VM traffic through a single "router" host, I disqualified it
[1:35] <qhartman> I suppose if I had the hardware for that box to have a couple 10Gb NICs in it I might think otherwise, but as it is, nope nope nope
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[1:35] <qhartman> I jsut barely got approval for the 10Gb stuff I needed for ceph
[1:35] <kutija> heh I know how that looks :)
[1:36] <kutija> had a long long talks with my business manager
[1:36] <kutija> to get some money for that expensive 10G equipment
[1:36] <qhartman> yeah
[1:36] <kutija> our first Juno deploy was with 1G network and FlatDHCP network
[1:36] <qhartman> it pretty much doubled the cost of my cluster since I went with used for the servers
[1:36] <kutija> it could not sustain 2 instances
[1:37] <kutija> which NIC's are you using
[1:37] <qhartman> Intels
[1:37] <kutija> x540?
[1:37] <qhartman> sounds right
[1:37] <qhartman> ~$400 each
[1:37] <kutija> yeah that's it
[1:37] <kutija> just like mine
[1:37] <kutija> 400 EUR each
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[1:59] <MentalRay> intel x540 work ok
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[11:12] <nilshug> OSD can't start anymore, getting a message like in http://tracker.ceph.com/issues/6671 : get_map(epoch_t) FAILED assert(ret). any ideas how to recover?
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[19:12] <tuxcrafter> http://paste.debian.net/plain/281390
[19:12] <tuxcrafter> i been trying to repair a ceph cluster that I broke while testing it
[19:12] <tuxcrafter> but i cant get it back in an healthy state
[19:13] <tuxcrafter> what should i do?>
[19:13] <tuxcrafter> btw should i email the mailing list with the question?
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[22:35] <SpaceDump> cluster up and running, having issues getting calamari to work though. (ubuntu 14.04 lts) Bah. :>
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[22:48] <SpaceDump> calamari and ubuntu 14.04 seem to be a bad combo. :D
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[23:53] <davidbitton> i performed a `ceph-deploy rgw create ceph-server-1` but radosgw failed to start. after looking at the init script, it appears that the conf file is not configured because `ceph-conf --list-sections client.radosgw.` returns nothing
[23:54] <davidbitton> and mind you, the output from ceph-deploy has this, `[ceph-server-1][DEBUG ] write cluster configuration to /etc/ceph/{cluster}.config`
[23:56] <davidbitton> this is the conf file, http://pastebin.com/arsfR0KH
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