#ceph IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2015-07-09

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[3:37] <snakamoto> Something dawned on me today regarding failure domains.
[3:38] <snakamoto> Say you have 4 OSD nodes, and each one is its own failure domain.
[3:38] <snakamoto> You have a replica count of 3.
[3:38] <snakamoto> OSD warn is 80% and OSD full is 90%.
[3:39] <snakamoto> if your cluster reaches 88%, and one of the OSD nodes fails, the cluster will start rebuilding.
[3:40] <snakamoto> The rebuild will cause the remaining OSDs to reach the OSD full level and stop write I/O.
[3:40] <Nats_> you'll fill all your disks and be in a world of hurt
[3:40] <lurbs> You can tweak those values, and also one which will prevent backfilling if the cluster's full past a certain point (osd backfill full ratio).
[3:40] <lurbs> And yes, they definitely need adjusting for a small cluster.
[3:41] <snakamoto> lurbs: thank you, I was hoping that was the right setting
[3:41] <snakamoto> so by default, if the OSD level gets over 85%, it won't attempt to redistribute data on ANY type of OSD failure?
[3:42] <snakamoto> Or I guess more accurately, it won't accept any redistribution data
[3:42] <Nats_> i run with a high mon_osd_down_out_interval for that reason
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[4:33] <via> is ceph-deploy supposed to create a config file that has the right sections so the init script will start the daemons?
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[4:33] <via> its only creating the [general] section for me
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[4:37] <dmick> via: no. daemon start doesn't require sections in ceph.conf
[4:37] <dmick> presence of files in /var/lib/ceph is enough
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[4:44] <snakamoto> dmick: does the monitor node need to be declared in ceph.conf?
[4:44] <dmick> not with a [mon] section, but
[4:45] * darkid (~Coe|work@5NZAAEU9C.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net) Quit ()
[4:45] <dmick> you do need mon_host, and maybe mon_initial_members (can't remember for sure on the last one)
[4:45] <dmick> mon_host is what lets clients and OSDs find the mons
[4:48] <dmick> https://ceph.com/docs/v0.79/dev/mon-bootstrap/#cluster-creation for more
[4:48] <dmick> sorry, old link
[4:49] <dmick> https://ceph.com/docs/master/dev/mon-bootstrap/#cluster-creation
[4:49] <snakamoto> Thank you, dmick!
[4:50] <dmick> yw
[4:51] <via> dmick: in the case that ceph is what is mounting the osd paths
[4:51] <via> does that still work?
[4:56] <dmick> well. ceph proper doesn't mount the osd paths; udevd triggers ceph-disk to do it, either at boot or at installation
[4:56] <dmick> so when the service starters go to look, /var/lib/ceph/* will be populated
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[8:58] <Kioob`Taff> Hi.
[8:58] <Kioob`Taff> I have some PG which stuck in "active+degraded" state, without progression.
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[8:58] <Kioob`Taff> I didn't find any usefull information in "ceph pg XXX query"
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[8:59] <Kioob`Taff> how can I find what's the problem ?
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[9:03] <gleam> ceph pg dump_stuck
[9:03] <gleam> pastebin that?
[9:03] <gleam> the output
[9:04] <gleam> and the query output i suppose
[9:04] <Kioob`Taff> http://pastebin.com/0K6gntJ1
[9:05] <Kioob`Taff> and the query output : http://pastebin.com/iBCxxRuB
[9:05] <Kioob`Taff> it has no peer
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[9:06] <Kioob`Taff> and the pool : pool 7 'sata3copies' replicated size 2 min_size 1 crush_ruleset 0 object_hash rjenkins pg_num 2048 pgp_num 2048 last_change 146131 flags hashpspool stripe_width 0
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[9:09] <gleam> and your crush ruleset is pretty simple?
[9:09] <Kioob`Taff> it's the default one, but I check that
[9:10] <Kioob`Taff> http://pastebin.com/cmFXCQkd
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[9:13] <Kioob`Taff> (and "default" is the name of my "root")
[9:13] <erikh> hey folks, maybe this is a dumb question, but is there any way I can issue a rbd map with code (as opposed to shelling out)? rbd does, but the krbd.h header is unavailable.
[9:14] <erikh> oh, i'll check #ceph-devel. sorry for the noise!
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[9:20] <gleam> how many hosts do you have?
[9:20] <Kioob`Taff> 6
[9:20] <gleam> huh
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[9:20] <gleam> i'd suggest trying the mailing list, honestly. I'm really not sure -- I don't see anything obvious
[9:20] <Kioob`Taff> but 3 of them have a weight 0
[9:21] <Kioob`Taff> (I'm trying to remove 3 hosts, and wait for the OK state :p)
[9:21] <Kioob`Taff> ok gleam, thanks for your time. I will continue to search a little, then will try the ML
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[9:26] <Be-El> hi
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[10:21] <Kioob`Taff> gleam: for information, restarting some OSD seem to have fix part of the problem. Some PG are now backfilling
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[11:46] <dennis_> Are there hammer packages available for debian jessie somewhere?
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[12:51] <ajazdzewski> hi, i like to have civetweb listen on a defined Interface or IP how can i do it?
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[13:50] <Kioob`Taff> so. I still have "HEALTH_WARN 1 pgs degraded; 254 pgs stuck unclean", with 253 active+remapped and 1 active+degraded
[13:50] <Kioob`Taff> there is no backfilling to fix that
[13:50] <Kioob`Taff> I don't understand why.
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[13:55] <Kvisle> Kioob`Taff: how many pg's do you have?
[13:55] <Kioob`Taff> 7680
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[14:34] <tnt> qMmm ... my OSD are also taking 25% more memory than before.
[14:34] <tnt> I'm starting to think I should have never upgraded to Hammer
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[14:40] <tnt> load_pgs on start also seems to take a long time (making a restart of the OSD take 5-10 min instead of near instant previously)
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[15:46] <zenpac> If I do a 'ceph pg dump' how do I correlate replicated PG's?
[15:46] <zenpac> Is there an identifier that maps replicas?
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[15:53] <tnt> How reliable/safe is PG merging these days ?
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[16:00] <gregsfortytwo> there is no pg merging?
[16:00] <Kioob`Taff> zenpac: each PG start by the pool id
[16:00] <gregsfortytwo> pg splitting is perfectly safe
[16:02] <Kioob`Taff> zenpac: for example, PG 7.19d is in the pool 7. Then you've juste to look at pool ids in "ceph osd dump | grep ^pool"
[16:02] <tnt> gregsfortytwo: ok, to bad :p
[16:03] <tnt> +o
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[16:11] <zenpac> Kioob`Taff: What is the second number refer to?
[16:11] <m0zes> it is a hex representation of the group number.
[16:14] <zenpac> How do I find the replicated PG's in a "ceph pg dump -f json-pretty" for example?
[16:15] <zenpac> I'm guessing PG's are replicated across OSD's ?
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[16:15] <zenpac> Is that done in an abstract way that does not allow you to easily see the replicas?
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[16:17] <m0zes> sure. you'd look at the "up" and "acting" entries under "pg_stats"
[16:18] <m0zes> "up" being where it is supposed to be, "acting" being where it is currently. afaict.
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[16:20] <zenpac> I see 2 numbers in the up and acting entries.
[16:22] <zenpac> So each PG id is unique, but they can (and do) contain replicas of data. Each pool consists of a finite set of PG's whose data is replicated. ?
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[16:24] <zenpac> And the times when 'up' and 'acting' values are not same is during a PG re-orgainization or repair?
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[16:34] <zenpac> So acting and up numbers are the OSD numbers that have copies of a PG?
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[16:37] <zenpac> I was mistaken in my believe that a PG was a piece of data that only existed in on place..
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[17:12] <zenpac> Kioob`Taff and m0zes: thanks..
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[17:25] <zenpac> Does CephFS bypass LIBRADOS and attach directly to the Linux kernel?
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[17:33] <mtanski> zenpac: yeah, it uses the kernel implemetation
[17:33] <m0zes> there is a cephfs kernel client and there is a cephfs FUSE client.
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[17:34] <m0zes> *if* you use the kernel client, you should always use the latest kernel. there are usually a lot of bugfixes.
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[17:34] <Kioob`Taff> the latest *stable* kernel :D
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[17:34] <m0zes> 4.1 fixed a lot of things.
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[17:35] * m0zes has been running https://github.com/ceph/ceph-client/tree/testing rebased on top of linus' master.
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[18:00] <[arx]> could someone point me to the docs that describe using an ssd for the journal of a group of osds?
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[18:17] <TheSov> wish me luck guys in a couple hours i go pitch ceph
[18:18] <TheSov> got my power point ready and my speech and such
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[18:45] <janos> good luck
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[19:43] <TheSov> does anyone know of a embedded product for ceph, like a box that holds one rust, one ssd with a gig nic and build in os ssd?
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[19:49] <amatus> TheSov: i'm working on getting ceph to run on a WD MyCloud
[19:50] <TheSov> hmmm
[19:50] <TheSov> i was thinking more enterprize'ey
[19:50] <amatus> yea, i'm going for bottom dollar
[19:50] <TheSov> that makes more sense
[19:50] <TheSov> are you building hammer for arm?
[19:50] <amatus> yup
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[19:51] <TheSov> because no one does that right now
[19:51] <TheSov> i would be very interested in that
[19:51] <TheSov> is there any way i could help you?
[19:51] * amatus shrugs
[19:51] <TheSov> you know the ceph team is looking for a arm builder
[19:54] <TheSov> that would be awesome to just buy a stack of mybooks, flash them and build a nice cluster
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[19:54] <amatus> that's the plan
[19:54] <amatus> they don't have much ram though
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[20:07] <TheSov> Hi doppelgrau
[20:08] <doppelgrau> hi TheSov
[20:09] <TheSov> im psyched my presentation for ceph is today
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[20:15] <doppelgrau> don???t worry, be happy
[20:15] <doppelgrau> :)
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[20:38] <snakamoto> TheSov: Good luck! My (very small) presentation was yesterday
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[20:43] <TheSov> howd it go
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[20:43] <TheSov> send me your powerpoint so that i may pilfer from it!
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[20:46] <snakamoto> It went alright; people were happy. It was just an explanation of the layout we're using, and some parameter choices.
[20:50] <TheSov> oh
[20:50] <TheSov> mine is like balls to bones explaination from how it works to cost
[20:50] <TheSov> i hope i didnt get any technical details wrong
[20:52] <TheSov> whats the max number of pools per cluster?
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[20:53] <m0zes> fwict, there is no max. you'd just want to stay below 300 pgs per osd for speed/memory's sake.
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[21:37] <championofcyrodi> can anyone help me with LACP 802.ad bonding in regard to VLANs?
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[21:38] <championofcyrodi> my slaves can see each other, and my controller can ping itself... the aggregate ID is the same and i'm seeing all the bonded ports on the bond0 output in /proc
[21:38] <championofcyrodi> but when i listen to the interface, the slaves have the ARP packets encapsulated in the vlan tag. (vlan:201)
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[21:38] <championofcyrodi> but the controller does not... its just ARP packets being broadcasted on the bonded interface
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[21:39] <championofcyrodi> someone mentioned to me a bonding option called, 'arp_target_ip', but I'm not sure how to implement that, or if it is even the correct solution.
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[21:43] <georgem> championofcyrodi: this is a working config http://pastebin.com/izgscizM
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[21:50] <TheSov3> vlanning storage networks is evil
[21:50] <TheSov3> storage network should be dedicated hardware vlan1
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[21:52] <championofcyrodi> TheSov3: feel free to buy some storage node's w/ additional NICs for me ;)
[21:53] <championofcyrodi> im using RBD w/ Openstack as a small development platform to test cobbler+puppet configurations i'll be pushing on to the expensive bare metal w/ dedicated switches.
[21:53] <TheSov3> is this a test or a production environment?
[21:53] <championofcyrodi> so i can then easily test hadoop+geoserver+hbase+zookeeper configurations on top of that.
[21:53] <championofcyrodi> development
[21:54] <TheSov3> ahh then u ok
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[21:54] <championofcyrodi> if i was setting up production for hundreds of users, i likely wouldnt be using ceph
[21:55] <TheSov3> ...??
[21:55] <TheSov3> thats the opposite logic
[21:55] <TheSov3> of*
[21:55] <TheSov3> a prod environment with hundreds of users is exactly what ceph is for
[21:56] <championofcyrodi> yea, and about 10 other large storage solutions that have existed, been hardened and tested well before ceph came along.
[21:56] <championofcyrodi> not that there is anything wrong with ceph.
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[21:56] <championofcyrodi> its just personal preference, i can find more storage admins for other types.
[21:57] <TheSov3> really how many SN storage environments do you know of out there?
[21:57] <TheSov3> cuz i know of 3
[21:57] <TheSov3> vmware vvols
[21:57] <TheSov3> emc scaleio
[21:57] <TheSov3> and ceph.
[21:58] <TheSov3> i wouldnt trust any other vendor with petabytes of data
[22:00] <via> scality, swift?
[22:00] <championofcyrodi> zfs on sun microsystems, baracuda networks, hdfs (wandisco?),
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[22:00] <championofcyrodi> swift is object store
[22:00] <via> so is ceph
[22:00] <TheSov2> i didnt say object store.
[22:00] <TheSov2> i said SN storage
[22:01] <championofcyrodi> thanks for the chat, but i have other things to do.
[22:01] <via> the block storage is just built on the object store
[22:01] <championofcyrodi> block vs. object... they have different use cases.
[22:01] <championofcyrodi> im not using ceph for any other purpose but to live migrate VMs if needed, in a small dev. environment.
[22:02] <championofcyrodi> so although it's 'evil' to use VLANs for ceph, i'm going to do it anyway.
[22:02] <snakamoto> what does SN storage stand for?
[22:02] <championofcyrodi> good question...
[22:02] <via> what does vlans have to do with ceph
[22:02] <championofcyrodi> i guess SAN?
[22:02] <championofcyrodi> (03:50:17 PM) TheSov3: vlanning storage networks is evil
[22:03] <via> ...is it?
[22:03] <m0zes> storage network afaict
[22:03] <TheSov2> it is
[22:03] <via> they seem to be complete orthogonal concepts
[22:03] <championofcyrodi> (03:37:36 PM) championofcyrodi: can anyone help me with LACP 802.ad bonding in regard to VLANs?
[22:03] <championofcyrodi> thanks georgem!!!
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[22:04] <championofcyrodi> im pretty sure with a modern switch, the default LAN is VLAN 1/0 and the performance hit on a VLAN is minimal if not un noticeable.
[22:04] <TheSov2> thats not the reason
[22:05] <m0zes> indeed. it should be unnoticable. it is all done in hardware, and even then, the hardware is tagging/untagging all packets anyway.
[22:05] <TheSov2> the reason is, there is a max bandwidth the asics tend to be able to handle. it is usually smaller than the the number of ports on the switch / 2
[22:05] <championofcyrodi> m0zes: which is being tricky for me in regard to 802.ad LACP
[22:05] <TheSov2> which is why people dedicated storage networking
[22:06] <m0zes> TheSov2: which is why you should be prioritizing packets.
[22:06] <championofcyrodi> oh, so like my synology with dedicated duel 10G Fiber NICs for my 70 users?
[22:06] <TheSov2> you shouldnt bother slowing down other networks for storage when your storage hardware should be dedicated
[22:06] <TheSov2> just my opinion
[22:07] <m0zes> it is cheaper to just run faster switches.
[22:07] <m0zes> 40Gb switch fabrics are ~$14,000/32 ports.
[22:08] <m0zes> and if you don't need 40Gb to all the clients, that can be broken out into 8x 40Gb and 96x 10Gb.
[22:09] <championofcyrodi> my clients are running any faster than 1Gbps anyway
[22:09] <TheSov2> well i realize that for people with budget constraints yes perhaps vlans work for you, i do not follow that. I have hundreds of production machines going on here. so when we deploy ceph it will be to dedicated hardware
[22:09] <championofcyrodi> so youre not using ceph now?
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[22:10] <TheSov2> my current ceph cluster is in test
[22:10] <TheSov2> its still on dedicated hardware though
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[22:10] <championofcyrodi> interested to know how you plan handle any bugs that get discovered in crush map updates across hundreds of production machines w/o down time.
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[22:11] <TheSov2> we are getting support from inktank
[22:11] <snakamoto> ohhh okay, you're not exactly against VLANs, you're against switch oversubscription
[22:11] <TheSov2> snakamoto, exactly
[22:12] <championofcyrodi> im generally against over allocation in any infrastructure, be it storage, network or compute.
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[22:12] <TheSov2> we have a horrible amount of overprovisioning here on compute
[22:12] <championofcyrodi> especially since most distributed jobs will utilize 100% of your nodes.
[22:12] <TheSov2> not my department
[22:12] <TheSov2> <--- just storage admin
[22:13] <snakamoto> Does anybody have any good numbers on memory allocation for Ceph OSD nodes?
[22:13] <championofcyrodi> must be nice...
[22:14] <TheSov2> i think 4 gigs of ram per osd is very comfortable for an osd
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[22:15] <m0zes> iirc it was 1GB/TB is the normal recomendation.
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[22:17] <m0zes> more is always better because of the page cache speeding up responses.
[22:18] <TheSov2> thats why i said 4gb
[22:18] <snakamoto> Unfortunately, when I spec'd our cluster, most of the documentation still said 2GB per OSD
[22:18] <TheSov2> it seems to be a sweet spot
[22:20] <TheSov2> more than 4 seems to have diminishing returns
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[22:23] <m0zes> eh, you can buy 8TB drives for a reasonable price...hgst he10
[22:23] <m0zes> s/10/8/
[22:24] <snakamoto> m0zes: SMR still scares me
[22:24] <m0zes> that isn't smr.
[22:24] <snakamoto> 8TB PMR? whoa
[22:24] <m0zes> the he8 disks are helium filled.
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[22:25] <m0zes> smr is a bit scary. I'm planning on using them archival in ceph
[22:26] <TheSov2> what are the known issues with SMR?
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[22:27] <snakamoto> I don't know of any known issues, but the way it writes data to disk introduces write amplification on updates
[22:28] <TheSov2> is that right?
[22:28] <TheSov2> im going to have to look into this some
[22:29] <zenpac> Can OSD be thought of as both a service and a storage container?
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[22:31] <TheSov2> ok i just read a nice article about banding of SMR and write amplification, it seems to be far more severe than the write amplification of SSD drives
[22:32] <snakamoto> depending on how many bands there are between guard zones
[22:32] <TheSov2> still the smallest banding right now is 64MB thats huge and effectively becomes your minmal block size
[22:32] <TheSov2> for writes anyway
[22:33] <TheSov2> so m0zes is correct, its smr for archival and thats about it at this time
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[22:35] <TheSov2> i guess it would be less relavent on COW filesystems
[22:35] <TheSov2> since they write new blocks anyway
[22:35] <TheSov2> but you would have to tell the COW fs how big the band size is
[22:36] <SpaceDump> Yah, i have installed my first ceph cluster. :D
[22:38] <TheSov2> feels good dont it?
[22:38] <SpaceDump> Yup.
[22:38] <TheSov2> now map some RBD's
[22:38] <SpaceDump> Now I have to do some ugly shit though.
[22:38] <TheSov2> when you get done with that
[22:38] <SpaceDump> Have to install libvirt and qemu on top of that.
[22:38] <SpaceDump> Together with openvswitch.
[22:38] <SpaceDump> Gonna be interesting. :p
[22:38] <TheSov2> setup a ????
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[22:38] <TheSov2> what
[22:38] <TheSov2> why would u need all that
[22:38] <SpaceDump> Because I'm changing data center provider.
[22:39] <TheSov2> wait did u build it on vms?
[22:39] <TheSov2> cuz taht would make more sense
[22:39] <SpaceDump> And to minimize the downtime for my irc servers etc I have to setup a temporary vm environment.
[22:39] <SpaceDump> No no, dedicated hardware for this.
[22:39] <SpaceDump> But for a limited time I will also run some vms on the hardware.
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[23:37] <snakamoto> Is anybody running a large (1PB) SATA OSD cluster using a replica factor of 2 instead of 3?
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[23:48] <doppelgrau> snakamoto: no, I know someone planing a large (about 20TB RAW) with size=4, min_size=2 to survive even large scale outtages
[23:49] <snakamoto> is that 20PB?
[23:49] <doppelgrau> yes, sorry
[23:49] <snakamoto> haha, no, thank you very much.
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[23:49] <snakamoto> I panicked for a second though =D
[23:50] <lurbs> A size of 2 is rather scary, unless you're getting redundancy from some other mechanism too.
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[23:50] <doppelgrau> snakamoto: size=2 with that amount of disks is in my eyes nearly a guarantee for datalos in a ???near??? future
[23:51] <lurbs> If what you're wanting is less overhead then maybe erasure coding and a cache pool is a better option.
[23:51] <doppelgrau> (especially if you use it for rbd-Images where losing a PG means partial datalos in nearly every image)
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[23:52] <snakamoto> Thank you, guys. I think the allure of increasing capacity another 50% by dialing down replication is too alluring to high-level folks.
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[23:52] <doppelgrau> snakamoto: :)
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[23:54] <doppelgrau> snakamoto: with size=2 you are likely to run into problems when after the first disk failure a second disk fails. (Not guranteed, since there will be more disks than PGs per ODS)
[23:56] <doppelgrau> snakamoto: and with about 5.000 disks you can espect nearly a disk dying per day on average, and evrn if the recovery took only 1 hour (15 Minutes waiting + data distribution) the chances are to high (at least for me sleeping well)
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