#ceph IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2015-06-11

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <sean_> yup
[0:00] <terje> mkay, I'm using xfs so I best figure out what the defaults are there.
[0:00] <TheSov2> u are using 8 times the iops necessary to do this
[0:00] <TheSov2> xfs
[0:00] <sean_> ?
[0:00] <sean_> TheSov2: explain?
[0:00] <TheSov2> 512
[0:01] <TheSov2> any time do you do an io that is a slice of the block size
[0:01] <TheSov2> it does the same io a bunch of times with the change made
[0:01] <TheSov2> so if your block size is 1mb
[0:01] <TheSov2> and you change 1k
[0:01] <TheSov2> your disk reads 1 megabyte
[0:01] <sean_> indeed got it.
[0:01] <TheSov2> memory changes 1k
[0:01] <TheSov2> and then you write 1 megabyte
[0:02] <TheSov2> cool
[0:02] <TheSov2> if programmers knew this, the world would be a happier place
[0:02] <sean_> haha
[0:03] <TheSov2> trim is supposed to fix it
[0:03] <TheSov2> but trim is only supported on ssd
[0:04] <via> trim solves a different problem
[0:05] <TheSov2> yes but its also supposed to stop that too
[0:05] <TheSov2> theres no need to write the same 512 bytes to a 4k sectore
[0:05] <TheSov2> sector*
[0:05] <via> it doesn't eliminate block sizes, or give the ability to do sub-block uupdates
[0:05] <TheSov2> you sure about that?
[0:06] <via> i'm not sure about anything, but i'd bet about tree-fiddy on it
[0:06] <TheSov2> i was pretty sure it lets you make block updates without re-writing the same data
[0:06] <via> i was under the impression it was only to allow marking a block as 'unused'
[0:06] <via> or deleted
[0:06] <TheSov2> you may be correct let me look it up
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[0:09] <TheSov2> it appears i was wrong, to date no one has addressed the lets write an entire block if 1 byte of data changed issue
[0:10] <via> its the tradeoff of needing to address blocks in some fashion
[0:10] <TheSov2> this is also why i find vmware's 1 megabyte block sizes hilarious when they claim its fast
[0:10] <via> if you could subdivide the block, then by definition you have more addressing bits
[0:10] <via> speaking specifically of physical disk sectors. some FSs get around FS block sizes in a different way, such as UFS
[0:10] <via> yeah...
[0:11] <via> probably good throughput for sequential anything
[0:11] <TheSov2> try putting a database on vmdk and get ready for complaints
[0:11] <TheSov2> vmware shows on its website that its just as fast as rdm
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[0:11] <TheSov2> perhaps only if that 1 vm alone is on the lun
[0:11] <via> nowadays you're supposed to just put your 'database' on the 'cloud'
[0:12] <TheSov2> in which case, its the same as an rdm...
[0:12] <TheSov2> when i told my boss the cloud is essentially no different than renting hardware at rackspace he didnt believe me
[0:12] <TheSov2> then i personally walked him through aws
[0:12] <via> not that there's anything wrong with rackspace! :p
[0:13] <TheSov2> of course not
[0:13] <TheSov2> i almost worked at rackspace
[0:13] * via does
[0:13] <TheSov2> as a tier2 sysadmin
[0:13] <TheSov2> i wanted tier3 but didnt get that
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[0:13] <TheSov2> they gave me an offer and i was like... no way
[0:13] <via> for cloud stuff?
[0:14] <TheSov2> no linux admin
[0:14] <via> yeah, but for cloudsites or something? there are a lot of departments
[0:14] <TheSov2> i dont know what it was for they just listed linux sysadmin
[0:14] <via> fair
[0:14] <TheSov2> it wasnt in openstack i know that
[0:14] <TheSov2> i asked
[0:15] <TheSov2> either way they told me id have to go down to texas for training and the pay was shit
[0:15] <TheSov2> so i declined
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[0:15] <TheSov2> they used the old "cost of living is lower here" line on me
[0:15] <TheSov2> i had no plan to move either
[0:16] <TheSov2> but they seemed genuinely nice
[0:16] <TheSov2> i work at trustwave now :)
[0:16] <via> cool
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[0:20] <TheSov2> i just got this from my dell rep, We can line up resources for the best practices/deployment/crowbar piece but first let me get some info on the support piece, which will be important. As you said, because reasons.
[0:20] <TheSov2> I should have something on that tomorrow.
[0:20] <rvhi> hi, we have 6 node ceph cluster, since yesterday start running into slow request issues even during normal operation, only about a few hundred op/s has >1000 ops blocked for >65s where should I start to troubleshoot?
[0:20] <TheSov2> rvhi, journals?
[0:21] <TheSov2> what does ceph status say?
[0:21] <rvhi> journals on its own ssd
[0:22] <rvhi> status says hundreds of slow request
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[0:22] <rvhi> many ops are blocked >65s and 32s
[0:22] <rvhi> 10 osd have slow requests
[0:22] <TheSov2> no degradeds right
[0:22] <rvhi> no
[0:22] <rvhi> we know scrub could cause issuse
[0:22] <rvhi> we set noscrub and nodeepscrub flags
[0:23] <rvhi> it's random osds slow requests. so doesn't seem one osd problem
[0:23] <rvhi> now 14 osds of 60 are slow
[0:25] <TheSov2> do you know if the if its reads or writes
[0:25] <TheSov2> im assuming writes
[0:25] <lurbs> Find out what the IOPS actually are: ceph --admin-daemon /var/run/ceph/ceph-osd.$OSD.asok dump_ops_in_flight
[0:25] <rvhi> client io?
[0:27] <rvhi> i am not sure about using asok. is it on mon or osd?
[0:28] <lurbs> On whichever machine is running the OSD(s).
[0:28] <rvhi> checking
[0:30] <rvhi> got lots of output
[0:30] <rvhi> which one should i pay attention?
[0:31] <TheSov2> whichever one hsa the biggest numbers :)
[0:31] <rvhi> num_of_ops?
[0:31] <rvhi> there are many fields
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[0:38] <rvhi> lots of waiting_for_osdmap
[0:39] <rvhi> tons of them, what does it mean?
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[0:42] <rvhi> any suggestion? google it, someone mentioned it was delayed writing into osd, i can't imagine that it took >65s to write into a disk
[0:42] <rvhi> we have 10G network and osd is 4T
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[0:57] <rvhi> anyone has any suggestions?
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[1:42] <terje> rvhi: how does ntp look on all your hosts?
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[1:42] <terje> sync'd?
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[2:02] <rvhi> ntp are synced
[2:03] <rvhi> is it safe to restart one osd process?
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[2:04] <flaf> rvhi: normally yes. You can restart one osd process.
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[3:57] <badone> how about gathering some statistics like sysstat or pcp on the OSD hosts to see if you can pinpoint the problem area?
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[9:06] <Be-El> hi
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[9:16] <perpetualrabbit> Be-El, I'm thinking: virtual machines can have guaranteed amounts of resources. Do you think it would work to put a ceph cluster on virtual machines? I would put one ceph vm on each real cluster node, and give those vm's access to a real disk on the host.
[9:17] <perpetualrabbit> Also what would be a proper amount of resources to give each vm?
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[9:35] <nils_> it would work, but what is the point of that?
[9:36] <nils_> I could see running the monitors in a VM
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[11:09] <sugoruyo> hey folks, I was wondering has anyone here built Ceph on RHEL/CentOS/SL 6?
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[11:16] <perpetualrabbit> nils_, we have a compute cluster that is already running. I want to add ceph to that, without having to restructure everything and causing downtime for the users.
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[11:18] <nils_> perpetualrabbit: openstack or something similar?
[11:20] <perpetualrabbit> nils_, no, really simple. Users just log in to any of the nodes and start compute jobs. They decided against any kind of queuing system. With my VM idea I hope that I can reserve resources that ceph would need. I think 4-8 GB ram and 2-4 cores per VM running ceph would be enough, right?
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[11:23] <nils_> perpetualrabbit: well generally most of the ceph services, possibly with the exception of the meta data server, don't use a lot of resources.
[11:25] <nils_> perpetualrabbit: you might be able to use control groups / lxc, it is not enough however to just start a virtual machine since the kernel may still schedule other things to run on those cpus as well
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[12:36] <bjornar_> the secret key to authtool --add-key is base64, but what are the other limits to it? length? .. can I generate it with openssl rand -base64 30 ?
[12:36] <bjornar_> Is it documented anywhere?
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[14:09] <harlequin> Hi! Does anyone know how to use an RBD as rootfs?
[14:11] <nils_> for a bare metal machine?
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[14:13] <nils_> I don't think there is a completed solution for that, however if you play around a bit with initramfs-tools you may be able to make it work with little effort, all you have to do is try and replicate some work from the iscsi thing
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[14:15] <harlequin> nils: yes :)
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[14:18] <harlequin> I imagine we'd need the initramfs to parse the kernel parameters line looking for something like rbdroot=pool/rbdname, but do you know if this is currently supported by any distribution?
[14:19] <monsted> i'd think it was easy enough, working off a PXE boot environment
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[14:25] <harlequin> monsted: Yes :) I'm actually more interested in knowing if any distribution currently supports RBD-mounting as rootfs from the initramfs.
[14:25] <harlequin> My understanding is that this isn't currently implemented in any distribution.
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[14:32] <monsted> i'd be surprised if any of them actually set it up for you
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[14:32] <monsted> although it would seem an obvious way of booting a large cluster of openstack hosts
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[15:05] <ganders> just update kernel on one of our osd servers to 3.19.8-031908 and the osd daemons are not started, try to started manualy but with no luck, on the osd daemon log there's nothing wrong
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[15:05] <ganders> also the start cmd shows: ceph-osd (ceph/27) stop/pre-start, process 7216
[15:05] <ganders> but i do a ps -ef | grep ceph-osd nothing is show
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[15:08] <ganders> any ideas?
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[15:16] <ganders> got it resolved
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[15:17] <TMM> ganders, what was your problem?
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[15:18] <ganders> TMM: I did a "rm /var/lib/ceph/osd/ceph-N/journal" prior to re-create the new journal (since I've some journals that are on ramdisk), then once i did that cmd, i do a "sudo ceph-osd -c /etc/ceph/ceph.conf -i N --mkjournal" and then a start cmd and work fine
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[15:29] <ganders> ok.. now that all osd daemons are up and running, i got the following condition: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=a1bvmeq2
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[15:30] <ganders> requests that are blocked since some osds have slow requests
[15:30] <ganders> got resolved (auto) :)
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[16:02] <nils_> anyone try that experimental accelio RDMA feature in hammer?
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[16:15] <nils_> seems like one can get InfiniBand a good bit cheaper than 10GbE
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[16:16] <rotbeard> nils_, if talking about mellanox -> yep, I guess.
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[16:17] <nils_> only the cabling is expensive
[16:17] <monsted> the cabling should be the same price as 10GE (for 10G IB)
[16:19] * monsted might remember wrong
[16:20] <nils_> I don't think so, QDR/FDR uses QSFP+
[16:20] <nils_> 10G IB is CX4 I think
[16:20] <monsted> yeah, i was wrong. i remembered 10g IB as using SFP+
[16:21] <monsted> QSPF isn't terribly expensive, though
[16:22] <nils_> yeah we already paid through our noses for SFP+ though
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[16:26] <monsted> i keep looking for an excuse to play with IB, but it never happens :)
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[16:33] <nils_> well I had a DRBD setup once, but had a lot of trouble with the Mellanox cards because they are very negligent about getting their drivers upstream
[16:33] <nils_> which means they only really support those ancient RHEL/CentOS kernels
[16:34] <nils_> ended up using them in IPoIB mode
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[16:51] <TheSov2> how do you drain an osd?
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[16:53] <doppelgrau> TheSov2: http://ceph.com/docs/master/rados/operations/add-or-rm-osds/#removing-osds-manual
[16:54] <TheSov2> doppelgrau, you sir are the man
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[17:01] <TheSov2> what are the typical requirements for a monitor?
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[17:05] <stj> hey all, does "osd max backfills" impact all data movement, or just adding/removing OSDs?
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[17:05] <stj> i'm about to adjust my crush map, and it'll result in data movement, wondering if that'll help retain client I/O during the move
[17:07] <doppelgrau> stj: In my experience the reason for the backfill makes no difference => all data movement
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[17:11] <monsted> TheSov2: 2 GB RAM and a CPU core
[17:12] <TheSov2> is it recommended to have at least 1 monitor as a VM?
[17:12] <stj> you need to have enough monitors to form a quorum
[17:12] <TheSov2> i realize, im thinking of split DC's
[17:13] <stj> so, an odd number... three monitors seems to work fine for my ~60OSDs
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[17:13] <TheSov2> if 1 dc goes down, vmware can use FT to have the monitor up at the other DC
[17:13] <monsted> as long as you can keep a quorum up, anything should be fine. it seems that recommendations are to run them on real hardware, but they can be on some of the OSD boxes
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[17:14] <TheSov2> yeah in my testing i noticed a 4 percentish speed difference by seperating out the monitors from OSD servers
[17:14] <monsted> TheSov2: i'd run maybe two MONs at each DC and a single one outside as a tie breaker
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[17:14] <stj> thanks, doppelgrau :)
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[17:15] <TheSov2> has anyone use ALB bonds with their clusters or do you do single nics?
[17:16] <monsted> bonded interfaces for us
[17:16] <TheSov2> lacp?
[17:16] <TheSov2> or alb?
[17:16] <monsted> no, plain failover
[17:16] <stj> yeah, i have a plain failover on my monitors
[17:17] <stj> single nics on the OSDs (separate nics for cluster/client networks)
[17:17] <monsted> most of the load balancing options require things that make it fairly pointless as a redundancy setup
[17:18] <monsted> (unlike many, i do not consider a stack redundant)
[17:18] <TheSov2> so bond the monitors, not so much the backend
[17:18] <monsted> i'd bond everything, unless you have a *lot* of OSD hosts
[17:20] <monsted> if losing a switch full of OSDs is a significant portion of your cluster, i'd bond
[17:20] <monsted> if you have thousands, meh.
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[17:21] <visbits> after i added a big node (40t) i have a 2 day rebuild.. but then i always have "request blocked" on the old osds.. generally like 150 request. if i restart the osd service for the blocked request they go away.. what causes this?
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[18:42] <cmdrk> does anyone have any experience with running Ceph on largely heterogenous clusters? we're considering moving our current (multi-PB) system over to Ceph, just wondering if there are any potential pitfalls
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[20:58] <cmdrk> any potential issues from mounting two separate CephFS clusters on the same client?
[20:59] <steveeJ> what would theoretically happen if I would re-initialize an OSDs partition?
[21:00] <cmdrk> steveeJ: in what sense?
[21:00] <cmdrk> as in, what will Ceph do if you blow away an OSD?
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[21:01] <steveeJ> I had to replace an OSDs disk in a server. I haven't taken any steps to remove it from the cluster
[21:01] <steveeJ> I could now simply initialize it with the existing OSD id
[21:02] <steveeJ> I have never tried that fearing the risk of creating chaos
[21:03] <cmdrk> if the old OSD was down, Ceph should have replicated all degraded PGs
[21:04] <cmdrk> so if you remove the old OSD, and then do a ceph osd create to make a new OSD in its place, it should just work (tm)
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[21:04] <cmdrk> Ceph will remap the PGs as appropriate and move data onto the replaced OSD
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[21:07] <steveeJ> cmdrk: I was thinking of skipping the OSD create step and just reuse the existing ID
[21:07] <cmdrk> well if you do an osd rm and osd create, it should get the same osd #
[21:08] <cmdrk> i.e., if you do ceph osd rm osd.6 and then do ceph osd create osd it should create an osd 6
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[21:11] <steveeJ> cmdrk: the ID of the osd is 1. what if I just format and mount the xfs partition and then do `ceph-osd -i 1 --mkfs --mkkey`?
[21:11] <steveeJ> again, the OSD is currently still in the tree
[21:11] <steveeJ> pardon me, the ID is 0
[21:11] <steveeJ> 0 1 osd.0 down 1
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[21:14] <cmdrk> mmm not sure, could try i guess :)
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[21:15] <steveeJ> that doesn't sound convincing ;) I'll choose the safe route
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[21:17] <rlrevell> in the latest version it won't let you specify the OSD id anymore
[21:18] <rlrevell> nvm i misread steveeJ's comment
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[21:50] <sean_> any plans to implement bucket policy in s3 anytime soon?
[21:50] <sean_> Policy (Buckets, Objects) Not Supported ACLs are supported
[21:51] <sean_> I need to quickly allow and deny users access to a bucket and all of the objects (thousands) inside of a bucket and iterating through all of the objects inside of a bucket to update the ACL takes minutes.
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[23:11] * sjm (~sjm@pool-173-70-76-86.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
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[23:40] <jidar> hmm, it seems like I can never use ceph-deploy prepare/activate, I always get this failed to truncate error
[23:41] <jidar> both on the latest version on CentOS, and the RHEL versions I think 0.9x and 0.88
[23:43] <lurbs> 0.94.2 is supposed to be out, but there are various packages missing from the repositories. There's no amd64 packages for Precise (12.04 LTS), and no i386 for Trusty (14.04 LTS) or Debian.
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