#ceph IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2014-02-13

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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[1:20] <pingu> I'm not seeing a big difference in latency on an async write operation via librados when waiting for complete vs waiting for safe. Does this sound about right? It's been in the order of 10% faster in my benchmarks.
[1:21] <pingu> Or does that mean I'm doing something wrong?
[1:23] <sjusthm> pingu: what fs are you using on the osd?
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[1:30] <pingu> sjusthm: butterfs
[1:31] <pingu> btrfs
[1:32] <sjusthm> I suspect that most of the latency would be in the commit unless you had really saturated the data disk and on btrfs they overlap, so that's plausible
[1:32] <pingu> sjusthm: you mean in the journal commit?
[1:33] <sjusthm> oh, actually, it reports complete when the journal commits
[1:33] <sjusthm> so they should be pretty close
[1:33] <pingu> oh, okay. so waiting for complete doesn't wait till it hits the osd daemon's memory
[1:33] <pingu> it does it when it hits the FS layer's memory
[1:33] <pingu> that makes much more sense
[1:33] <pingu> is that correct?
[1:33] <gregsfortytwo> yeah
[1:34] <gregsfortytwo> complete means "in the filesystem and readable"
[1:34] <gregsfortytwo> safe means "on disk"
[1:34] <sjusthm> gregsfortytwo: actually, we ack when it hits the journal
[1:34] <sjusthm> ReplicatedPG::eval_repop
[1:35] <sjusthm> we only send a seperate ack if we haven't committed yet
[1:35] <gregsfortytwo> yeah, safe implies complete from an ordering perspective, because the OSD will hold up anything incomplete
[1:35] <sjusthm> correct
[1:35] <gregsfortytwo> s/anything/anything accessing an object that's/
[1:35] <kraken> gregsfortytwo meant to say: yeah, safe implies complete from an ordering perspective, because the OSD will hold up anything accessing an object that's incomplete
[1:35] <sjusthm> so those two should actually occur at the same time
[1:35] <sjusthm> complete/safe that is
[1:36] <sjusthm> perhaps internal librados slowness
[1:37] <gregsfortytwo> or the "complete" is coming back first because it's btrfs?
[1:37] <sjusthm> there isn't actually a complete message
[1:37] <sjusthm> that's a librados thing
[1:37] <sjusthm> or
[1:37] <sjusthm> wait
[1:38] <sjusthm> ugh
[1:38] <sjusthm> I always get the librados words mixed up with the internals
[1:42] <pingu> so... there's not any difference between complete and safe in librados with btrfs?
[1:42] <sjusthm> pingu: I have to go and look at the docs
[1:42] <sjusthm> one sec
[1:42] <pingu> sjusthm: thanks
[1:42] <gregsfortytwo> "complete" means the operation is in the btrfs filesystem's memory
[1:42] <gregsfortytwo> "safe" means the operation is persisted to disk
[1:42] <gregsfortytwo> if you get a "safe" that implies "complete"
[1:43] <sjusthm> gregsfortytwo: librados always gives you both, not implied
[1:43] <sjusthm> pingu: ok, complete means it's in memory on all replicas
[1:43] <gregsfortytwo> ah, right, if you ask for them
[1:43] <sjusthm> safe means it's physically on a platter on all replicas
[1:43] <sjusthm> with btrfs, it's possible to get complete before safe
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[1:44] <sjusthm> in general in librados, they can come back in either order
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[7:51] <josef_> Hi, anyone here with osd tier-knowledge? Say that I have a pool consisting of SSDs to act as a writeback buffer-pool. Does that pool need to have 3 osds as well to keep replication, or is that solved some other way?
[7:51] <josef_> Thanks!
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[8:29] <Theuni2> good morning
[8:29] <Theuni2> I'm working on KVM live migration with VMs backed by ceph rbd images. I'm currently looking at the locking options.
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[8:31] <Theuni2> I'm confused by the documentation for the shared locking. It mentions that those are intended to support VM migration scenarios but the specific details of their behaviour isn't documented well. Googling didn't help. Does anybody have any more knowledge about the migration/locking scenario with rbd?
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[11:24] <Kgremliza> Hi there, is somebody "on duty" who might help ?
[11:27] <Kgremliza> another question: what is the most stable relase of ceph
[11:29] <Kgremliza> currently i try with ubuntu 13.04
[11:30] <Kgremliza> 42 ?
[11:30] <fghaas> Kgremliza: there are plenty of people here who can help, but don't expect to be entitled to support ... I've mentioned this a couple of days ago I believe
[11:30] <fghaas> current stable is emperor, current enterprise release is dumpling
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[11:31] <Kgremliza> yes i know
[11:31] <Kgremliza> i remember well
[11:32] <Kgremliza> how ever i do a pilot and am mlimitied in funds
[11:32] <Kgremliza> i will try dumpling then
[11:32] <Kgremliza> which base os should i be using ?
[11:35] <Kgremliza> fghaas: which base os should i be using ?
[11:36] <fghaas> http://ceph.com/docs/master/start/os-recommendations/
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[11:38] <Kgremliza> fghaas: i've been through all this documentation. in the beginning things went fine. however some of the documentation seems a little misleading at least for beginners
[11:38] <Kgremliza> so i really need a sure best bet on os with lets say dumpling
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[11:39] <Kgremliza> as long as you dont support ceph on solaris 11
[11:40] <Kgremliza> and zfs wich would be my personal favourite
[11:42] <fghaas> ubuntu 12.04 or centos 6
[11:42] <fghaas> with packages from ceph.com
[11:43] <Kgremliza> i see you have an updated kernel on 12.04 ?
[11:44] <Kgremliza> which release should I take ?
[11:44] <Kgremliza> kernelwise
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[11:49] <madkiss1> loicd: are you around? :)
[11:50] <loicd> good day madkiss1 how are you ?
[11:50] <madkiss1> loicd: i am great, thanks! how are you? I hope the sun is shining down on you like it is on me! :)
[11:50] * loicd looks out the window and see rain
[11:51] <madkiss1> that is indeed a pity
[11:51] <madkiss1> loicd: would you have a minute to discuss in a query? :)
[11:51] <loicd> sure
[11:53] <fghaas> Kgremliza: if the "you" applies to me, no I don't. Inktank builds those, and I don't work for Inktank.
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[14:07] <LiRul> hi
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[14:10] <josef_> LiRul, hi!
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[14:26] <LiRul> I have a strange primary OSD slowdown problem
[14:27] <LiRul> sometimes a simple 70 KB object upload via radosgw
[14:27] <LiRul> more than 8-10 seconds
[14:28] <LiRul> i made some debug and i saw always the primary osd is the critical point
[14:28] <LiRul> (debug level 30/30)
[14:28] <LiRul> i'm using latest stable ceph, with ubuntu 12.04 lts x86_64
[14:29] <LiRul> 3 osd per node with wd re4 hdds
[14:29] <LiRul> journal on same disk
[14:29] <LiRul> i don't know why primary osd stops request process
[14:30] <LiRul> have you got any idea what can I do?
[14:31] <LiRul> hdds are mounted with nobarrier, noatime, nodiratime, nodev, nosuid parameters (using xfs)
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[15:33] <joelio> any reasonm why the number of pools I've got is flapping between 2 numbers (4 and 6)
[15:33] <joelio> only seen this since upgrade to emperor
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[19:02] <Haksoldier> EUZUBILLAHIMINE??EYTANIRRACIM BISMILLAHIRRAHMANIRRAHIM
[19:02] <Haksoldier> ALLAHU EKBERRRRR! LA ?LAHE ?LLALLAH MUHAMMEDEN RESULULLAH!
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[19:04] <joelio> still seeing a strange pool enumeration.. flicks between 2 pool numbers every few seconds
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[19:04] <joelio> and my cluster is crawling now
[19:05] <joelio> health says OK
[19:05] <joelio> nothing untowards I can see in the logs (not very verbosde as it;s in prod now)
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[20:40] <dgc> is NFS export of a mounted cephfs volume supported? It's not working for me: mount requests hang indefinitely, and there are no errors visible in the NFS server logs.
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[20:44] <dgc> I've tried mounting across the lan and from localhost. Mounting a different export using the same mount options works for both.
[20:45] <fghaas> dgc: not with the kernel NFS server, no
[20:45] <dmsimard> dgc: Why would you want to export cephfs through NFS ? I could understand a RBD but not cephfs.
[20:45] <fghaas> dmsimard: for clients that can't run cephfs, perhaps?
[20:46] <dgc> dmsimard: because I need to coalesce uids/gids, making all files single-owner. cephfs doesn't support this, but nfs remount does.
[20:46] <dmsimard> fghaas: Genuinely curious :)
[20:46] <dgc> but we've also done it for the other reason :)
[20:47] <dgc> I believe we were using fuse at the tiem
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[20:47] <dmsimard> dgc: Would exporting by NFS a rbd not work ?
[20:47] <dmsimard> dgc: (for you)
[20:47] <fghaas> re-exporting a kernel filesystem (cephfs) with an in-kernel fileserver is a deadlock waiting to happen
[20:48] <fghaas> but take a look at ganesha
[20:48] <dgc> dmsimard: we're thinking about it, but did not design around fixed-size filesystems, and would need to rebuild...
[20:48] <dgc> fghaas: I sort of see your point, but aren't most filesystems in-kernel? why isn't exporting xfs a problem for the same reason?
[20:48] <fghaas> whenever cephfs becomes stable, ganesha will be the supported nfs re-export option
[20:49] <fghaas> because for making a call to a local block device, xfs doesn't need to go through the network
[20:50] <dgc> ah, you mean an in-kernel network fs - ok, got it
[20:50] <fghaas> I'm sorry dgc, I missed a crucial word there twice: "re-exporting a kernel *network* filesystem (cephfs) with an in-kernel *network* fileserver is a deadlock waiting to happen"
[20:50] <dgc> :)
[20:50] <dgc> thanks for the pointer to ganesha, I'll look at it.
[20:51] <fghaas> the non-networked analog to that is having a filesystem on a block device that's a loop device backed by a file in a filesystem, by the way :)
[20:51] <dgc> any other ideas for squashing IDs? I'm not in love with NFS particularly, just need to make all access through teh same user
[20:51] <dgc> fghaas: makes sense now :)
[20:52] <dgc> helps me give substance to my long-standing suspicion of kernel nfs..
[20:54] <fghaas> I have no idea whether anyone thought of squashing IDs in cephfs yet
[20:54] <dgc> thanks for all the info
[20:55] <dgc> our use case is, we have 400T in a ceph pool that we're using as a nexus among multiple file access protocols
[20:55] <fghaas> I mean, you could of course distribute a user with the same uid via ldap or puppet or whatever, and have your application always use that, but... urgh
[20:55] <dgc> for practical reasons, for now, we need to essentially anonymize it
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[20:58] <dgc> rbd might be the best option I guess, not a lot of time right now for exploring alternative nfs implementations
[20:59] <dgc> fghaas: that's basically what we're doing for xrootd and gridftp. But we also want to provide posix access for shell users
[20:59] <fghaas> dgc, this is starting to sound ugly :)
[21:00] <dgc> science is ugly, yeah :)
[21:01] <dgc> but it's a big improvement over mandating pki and x.509 user AND proxy certificates for filestore access
[21:01] <dgc> which is the history we're trying to bury
[21:03] <fghaas> well actually the pki part doesn't sound so horribly if you're doing ReSTful https access
[21:03] <dgc> oh, no. this isn't new.
[21:04] <dgc> this is the grid. we specialize in deathgrips on cumbersome technology.
[21:05] <nhm_> oooh, gridft
[21:05] <nhm_> gridftp
[21:06] <nhm_> dgc: globus online or the old school?
[21:07] <nhm_> dgc: in another life I lead the development of a proteomics data analytics web service framework based on cagrid/globus.
[21:07] <dgc> nhm_: globus online for the gridftp end. there are more endpoint types we want to support but the big three right now are xrootd, globus, and posix
[21:08] <dgc> neat, globus is building out a bioinformatics as a service thing as part of their "online" offering now
[21:08] <nhm_> dgc: That sounds like a Ravi Maduri project. :)
[21:08] <dgc> exactly :)
[21:09] <nhm_> dgc: where are you?
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[21:09] <dgc> they've pretty much dropped the globus toolkit package as a consumer product now - it's all focused on the online brand, except they dropped "online" from the name
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[21:09] <dgc> I'm at uchicago, I sit with some of the globus team. But we're just collaborators, not in the same group.
[21:10] <nhm_> dgc: So I think our stuff is still being used, but our grant ran out and we ended up joining forced with the Galaxy guys. The guy that did most of the work on our proteomics stuff is actually now actually employed to work on Galaxy.
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[21:10] <nhm_> dgc: I used to be at the Minnesota Supercomputing Institute
[21:10] <dgc> ah, then you know Birali?
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[21:11] <nhm_> dgc: Yep, he was my boss for about 4 years
[21:11] <dgc> he's our director of research comuting now
[21:11] <dgc> not in my chain, we're parallel. But we work with his group from time to time
[21:11] <nhm_> dgc: Yeah, I was around when that all went down. :)
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[21:12] <nhm_> dgc: so neat that you guys are using Ceph. I was trying to convince Birali they should play with it back at SC12.
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[21:14] <dgc> they're using gpfs on their cluster - much slower than our ceph :)
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[21:14] <nhm_> dgc: Are you guys using cephfs?
[21:14] <dgc> yes, and also rbd
[21:14] <nhm_> cool. What kind of hardware?
[21:16] <dgc> to be clear we're in pretty infant stages with ceph right now. we're building new services and tools with it, on top of dell r600 servers with md1200 cabinets. but our old services still use hw raid and xfs (with addl storage layers above that)
[21:16] <dgc> as ceph matures and we get better with it I think we hope to move our whole operation over.
[21:17] <nhm_> neat
[21:17] <dgc> the new services are only 400 tb, the old ones are much larger
[21:18] <dgc> https://osgconnect.net/ is our lead site
[21:18] <bens> yo!
[21:18] <bens> alram: you aboot?
[21:19] <dgc> but we also deploy that computational & storage model for local campus grids/clusters
[21:19] <dgc> it's a "cluster computing as a service" idea
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[21:22] <alram> bens: yep
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[21:24] <bens> alram: opened a ticket - no rush
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[21:25] <alram> ok, someone will look into it shortly
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