#ceph IRC Log

Index

IRC Log for 2014-02-06

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

[0:00] <dupont-y> ... lots of this of course
[0:00] * fghaas (~florian@91-119-84-76.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) has left #ceph
[0:00] <dupont-y> ben in 10 minutes , it won't be the case anymore
[0:05] <dupont-y> maybe I should ask ceph-devel
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[1:27] <loicd> hum
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[11:39] <glambert> my VMs that use disks in Ceph RBD are running very slowly at the moment; I've got a backfill going on that is probably causing it
[11:40] <glambert> would enabling RBD caching resolve that issue? If so, how exactly do you enable RBD caching? Is it instant the moment you add it into the config file or do you have to do anything else?
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[11:44] <glambert> emailed ceph users mailing list
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[12:52] <mattch> glambert: If you're using libvirt/qemu you can set a cache parameter in the disk section of the vm XML - set to one of writethrough or writeback iirc
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[13:02] <glambert> hi mattch, so if my XML has: <source protocol='rbd' name='libvirt-pool/ubuntu-12-04-web001'>
[13:03] <glambert> change it to be ...-12-04-web001,rbd_cache=true,cache=writeback'>
[13:03] <glambert> is that right?
[13:03] <mattch> glambert: let me see...
[13:04] <mattch> glambert: Ah, it's the driver line in that section: <driver name='qemu' type='raw' cache='writethrough'/>
[13:04] <mattch> take care to be sure that you're using a caching type of appropriate 'safety' for your setup too, qas there's a risk of data loss in some cases
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[13:16] <glambert> mattch, my driver line is just: <driver name='qemu'/> at the moment
[13:16] <glambert> all of my VMs are running ubuntu 12.4.3
[13:17] <glambert> so afaik caching should be OK
[13:17] <glambert> all have different things running on them though, such as mysql, postfix, apache, nginx, varnish etc,
[13:18] <mattch> glambert: I think so - you can always set writethrough instead of writeback if you're paranoid - depends on the tade-off with performance
[13:18] <glambert> what's the difference?
[13:18] <glambert> between writethrough and writeback
[13:19] <fghaas> WT only caches reads, WB caches reads and writes
[13:21] <fghaas> also, http://bit.ly/MuJeqa :)
[13:22] <glambert> uh-huh, thanks for that
[13:24] <fghaas> in effect, setting WT means setting the cache dirtiness limit to zero, as also explained in http://ceph.com/docs/next/rbd/qemu-rbd/
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[13:54] <glambert> thanks
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[14:13] <glambert> anyone any idea why rbd-fuse is returning an empty directory?
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[14:45] <dwm> I'm currently looking at CephFS performance. As I reported last night, simply running a `find` on a populated filesystem seems remarkably slow: while producing a single directory listing can be swift, iterating from one directory to the next can take several hundred ms, at least in the cold-cache case.
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[14:45] <dwm> (This is on a cluster with 10GBit/sec nodes, and which can sustain 900MB/sec writes.)
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[14:46] <dwm> I was surprised to see that `ceph -s` reports client-io writes, even when noatime was set on the mount.
[14:46] <dwm> Is this expected behaviour?
[14:47] <fghaas> if it's slow, then even a single directory listing should be rather slow on first read if the directory has lots of dentries, as (iirc) the mds always caches metadata for a full directory when that directory is first read
[14:47] <fghaas> after that, the same directory listing should obviously be zippy
[14:47] <dwm> I've just seen that, on 3.13 at least, cephfs mounts have 'nodentry' set as a default mount flag.
[14:47] <dwm> Setting 'dentry' as a mount option seems to possibly improve matters.
[14:48] <dwm> fghaas: Mmm, my test data-set is a mirror of our .deb package repository -- relatively large number of directories with small number of items in each.
[14:48] <dwm> And yes, re-running find with various caches hot is fast as you'd expect.
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[14:52] <dwm> I haven't got a good CIFS client test just yet -- I suspect Nautilus might not be the best measure -- but exporting a CephFS mount using Samba doesn't seem to go swiftly. While iozone3 shows multiple-hundred MB/sec writes, my test CIFS export only runs at about 30MB/sec.
[14:52] <dwm> My suspicion is that while raw data writes are fast, there's some class of metadata operation that's slowing some things down.
[14:53] <dwm> But I'm only really starting to experiment with this now.
[14:53] <dwm> Oh, I do need to flag one bug: NFS re-export appears to break if you try to export only a sub-tree of a CephFS mount.
[14:53] <dwm> I'll write that up and file it.
[14:57] <fghaas> are you re-exporting with the NFS kernel server, or with ganesha?
[14:57] <fghaas> s/NFS kernel/kernel NFS/
[14:57] <kraken> fghaas meant to say: are you re-exporting with the kernel NFS server, or with ganesha?
[14:57] <fghaas> dwm^^
[14:58] <dwm> Ah, this is with the kernel NFS exporter.
[14:58] <dwm> I haven't built a version of Ganesha with libcephfs support yet.
[14:58] <dwm> (I had a brief go, then discovered that a git autocheckout didn't build cleanly without using a hacked up version of libcephfs?)
[14:58] <fghaas> iiuc kernel NFS re-export is unsupported, owing to the risk of cephfs/nfs export deadlocks
[14:59] <dwm> Mmm, I can certainly imagine loopback mounts being a bad idea due to memory deadlocks under pressure.
[14:59] <dwm> ... but I do remember the MDS getting updates to support reliable, stable inode numbers.
[15:01] <dwm> Mmm, that went into Dumpling: "mds: support robust lookup by ino number (good for NFS)"
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[16:48] <dmsimard> Talked to people from Fusion IO yesterday, they had no clue what Ceph was.. told them they were late to the party :p
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[16:49] <janos> doh, yeah
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[17:39] <fghaas> just resharing this here for those who haven't seen this and feel like dropping by: http://www.meetup.com/Ceph-Frankfurt/events/164620852/ -- informal gathering before Ceph day in Frankfurt; madkiss will be there
[17:40] <fghaas> "before" in this case means "the evening before", of course, and beverages are likely to be involved
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[17:46] <fghaas> I'd appreciate if someone here could explain exactly *what* metadata PG scrubbing looks at (I presume it's all stat(2) data from files in the OSD filestore), and which differences exactly will trigger the PG being marked as inconsistent. mtime is apparently ignored, file size apparently matters, but it would be great to get confirmation
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[17:56] <nhm> fghaas: I suspect you'll get the best answer from Sam or Sage.
[17:57] <fghaas> nhm: thanks Mark (my question is obviously related to issue #7350)
[17:58] <nhm> fghaas: ouch. :/
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[18:00] <fghaas> nhm: yup, "ouch" is what I thought too. if your bitrot protection doesn't protect against bitrot, that would be a problem. the metadata is just a side question though -- not sure if scrub ought to trigger on an mtime update
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[18:02] <nhm> fghaas: I'm curious about the code path involved in where it's reading the correct path back from the replica.
[18:02] <nhm> sorry, correct data
[18:03] <nhm> fghaas: you know for sure that it read from the replica and not some kind of cache or something right?
[18:03] <fghaas> nhm, yes, and that seems like the point where it should actually mark the PG as inconsistent -- *something* has already detected that one copy is bust, why pretend that everything is fine?
[18:04] <fghaas> um, is there some kind of cache involved in rados(8)?
[18:04] <fghaas> as for the osd itself, no an update to the file should definitely invalidate that page cache entry
[18:05] <nhm> fghaas: I just want to make sure that it's doing what we think it's doing.
[18:05] <fghaas> well, I wouldn't be aware of any cache that persists between two rados(8) invocations
[18:06] <fghaas> nhm, sorry, have to step away for a bit, but will bbl
[18:06] <nhm> fghaas: I think I agree, I just want to be sure. Ddi you have logging enabled?
[18:06] <nhm> fghaas: ok, no worries
[18:07] <nhm> fghaas: ok, saw that at the end you did the pg repair that fixed it.
[18:07] <nhm> fghaas: creepy.
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[18:19] <toMeloos> HI, anyone around that's familiar with the puppet modules for ceph?
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[18:35] <sage> fghaas: the lower layers are caching open fd's, and vi is doing a rename/swap into place.
[18:35] <sage> try it again with echo asdf >> filename (whcih will modify the existing file and not swap it around)
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[18:36] <sage> or generate som eload so that the FDCache entry expires
[18:36] <fghaas> sage, wilco
[18:37] <nhm> sage: ah, that makes sense.
[18:37] <fghaas> is "echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches" expected to kill the cache you want to kill?
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[18:38] <sage> differetn cache.. it's inside ceph-osd
[18:38] <sage> just a cache of recently opened files so we aren't doing lots of close(2) .. open(2) ...
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[18:39] <sage> doing a rados bench ... in between is probably enough to flush that out. or, replace teh existing file content (don't use vi) instead of renaming something around.
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[18:39] <nhm> sage: so the pg repair let go of the fdcache or something, found the new file, and repaired it?
[18:41] <sage> it still had the unlinked file opened (which wasn't modified) and read that, i thnk
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[18:44] <nhm> sage: yeah, that makes sense. I'm just curious about what happened when when repair was called. Did it fix the primary copy?
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[18:44] <nhm> sage: ie did the fd cache get cleared before the repair or did it just continue to check the unlinked file?
[18:46] <fghaas> nhm, sage: retesting this now ... just need to wait a few for my VM's clocks to stabilize to actually get to a HEALTH_OK state
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[18:46] <nhm> I suppose this is a rather unique edge case assuming that's what's going on.
[18:47] <fghaas> nhm, yeah, for the past 7-or-so years that I've been mainly building HA systems, hunting down and killing off corner cases one by one is what it boiled down to :)
[18:48] <nhm> fghaas: :D
[18:48] <fghaas> (btw: if anyone has a better idea for keeping your clocks within 0.05s within libvirt/qemu-kvm, besides using the kvmclock time sources and mutually defining your guests as NTP peers, I'm all ears)
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[19:32] <fghaas> sage -- confirmed, issue updated and downgraded. thanks for the explanation, sorry for the noise -- I learned something about vi today and should really stick to emacs :)
[19:37] <nhm> fghaas: good to hear! Though I think a legitimate question might still be if we need to be invalidating the fdcache before scrub/deep-scrub.
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[19:39] <fghaas> that might not be a bad idea, though like I wrote in the issue I find myself nearly unable to think of a scenario where this problem would be caused by bitrot (or anything except human or deliberate interaction, for that matter)
[19:40] <fghaas> flip a bit in the xattrs -- scrub detects, flip a bit in the content -- deep-scrub detects
[19:40] <nhm> fghaas: yes, I'm thinking more if some other process comes through and for some reason screws up a local copy.
[19:40] <nhm> fghaas: well, I suppose in this very specific way.
[19:41] <fghaas> I mean of course if OSDs sometimes actually do that ("that" being delete a file and recreate it under the same name), then yes, absolutely, that would need fixing
[19:42] <fghaas> because obviously the open fd won't go away just because of the dentry being removed
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[19:42] <nhm> fghaas: in any event, at least it's now more philisophical than OMG BAD. ;)
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[19:48] <fghaas> yup, plus I learned that osds have an fd cache that I previously knew zip about :)
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[20:12] <sameer> Hi Munir
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[22:34] <Dr_Drache> oh no, this channel is logged.
[22:35] <Dr_Drache> greetings, I am having an issue with some OSDs.
[22:35] <xarses> they are all logged!
[22:36] <Dr_Drache> /etc/ceph.log and /etc/ceph/ceph.conf paste : http://paste.openstack.org/show/62871/
[22:36] <lurbs> xarses: Well yeah, but the archives for this one also exist outside the NSA.
[22:36] <Dr_Drache> ceph osd tree paste : http://paste.openstack.org/show/62870/
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[22:37] <Dr_Drache> ceph -s paste http://paste.openstack.org/show/62868/
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[22:38] <xarses> all your chat belong to us
[22:38] <Dr_Drache> all nodes are pingable from all nodes on all ips.
[22:38] <Dr_Drache> don't know what else I'd need to say here :P
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[22:47] <alfredodeza> Dr_Drache: you are using a *very* old version of ceph-deploy
[22:47] <alfredodeza> I suggest an upgrade :)
[22:48] <Dr_Drache> well, It is deployed with Fuel as a test at this time.
[22:48] <alfredodeza> should not matter
[22:48] <alfredodeza> unless there is something I am missing ?
[22:49] <Dr_Drache> other than the lack of knowlege of a inplace upgrade, I guess not.
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[22:49] <xarses> alfredodeza: its the "working" version we stuffed into fuel, it normally works great
[22:49] <alfredodeza> always make sure you are using the latest cepg-deploy as there are a lot of improvements and bug fixes
[22:49] <alfredodeza> ah got it xarses
[22:50] <alfredodeza> still... 1.2.7 is very very old
[22:50] <Dr_Drache> so, fuel people need to get with the times.
[22:50] <xarses> but yes, we need to update it but haven't had time to test for regressions =)
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[22:50] <xarses> Dr_Drache: alfredodeza's ceph-deploy releases almost every week
[22:50] <Dr_Drache> alfredodeza, if you have a min, I have a question on ceph.
[22:51] <geraintjones> is it safe to online resize ifs osds ?
[22:51] <alfredodeza> the release cycle has slowed down for sure, it is way less buggy these days :)
[22:51] <geraintjones> I found a couple of 3tb disks that were not partitioned with GPT so are only showing 2tb
[22:51] <geraintjones> ifs == xfs
[22:52] <Dr_Drache> alfredodeza, async replication (for a DR site), what kind of latency does that require?
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[22:54] <alfredodeza> Dr_Drache: I am not sure
[22:54] * alfredodeza is probable not that well versed
[22:54] <geraintjones> surely if its async then latency should matter too much
[22:54] <geraintjones> should = shouldn't
[22:55] <Dr_Drache> ok, well, I wanted to setup a Ceph backed HA OS cluster, with the failovers in a datacenter with a 50MS max SLA connection.
[22:55] <geraintjones> you will never be able to do that with async replication
[22:56] <geraintjones> would have to be sync so that you always know that both clusters are in sync
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[22:56] <Dr_Drache> i thought sync was super sensetive to latency
[22:56] <geraintjones> that being said - when I was doing sync repo with IBM DS8800's
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[22:56] <geraintjones> they had a range of no more than 12ms latency
[22:57] <geraintjones> so you could have them anywhere inside a 50KM fibre radius
[22:57] <Dr_Drache> this is about 15km fiber.
[22:57] <Dr_Drache> in a SONET ring
[22:57] <geraintjones> sync should be doable on that
[22:58] <Dr_Drache> thanks for that information. I'll be back around a bit in the next week or two, with random questions from my uneducated mind :P
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[22:59] <geraintjones> heh
[22:59] <Dr_Drache> waiting on more hardware delivery. LOL
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[23:00] <geraintjones> the thing to make sure of if your doing sync is that the pipe between the clusters is as big or bigger than the combined pipes going from the clusters to the clients
[23:00] <geraintjones> or you will never be able to do sync :)
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[23:01] <geraintjones> these are general rules - not ceph specific btw
[23:01] <geraintjones> it may have different latency requirements.
[23:02] <geraintjones> but i doubt they are that far off
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[23:46] <bens> I like big raids and I cannot lie. You other brothers can't deny. When an itty bitty disk gets its mad stripes it's redundancy increases exponenttially.
[23:47] <bens> At this point, I'm not even trying.
[23:47] <bens> To Rhyme, I mean.
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